I am so sick of being told I am abusive, controlling, manipulative, unrepentant, ungodly and unwilling to change for over 6 years. That is not who or what I am by any stretch of the imagination. Have I done anything to deserve those lables? Sure, I have, but not to the degree that those labels would indicate. If my wife cannot get over the things I have done, she needs psychological help for being very emotionally weak, because I know I have not been that hard to deal with for the average person. Additionally, I do not naturally hurt people on a routine basis on purpose without being provoked well beyond what normal people can take. I'm just not that unreasonable of a person.
I have sincerely apologized for my failures, been to marriage counselors, met with pastors, etc. and everyone buys into her version of what our relationship is like much in the same way they have over on the site being discussed by DIC, without giving any time or merit to what I have to say. What no one seems to realize is my wife has a 140 IQ and has been very talented at making herself look good her whole life. Ever since we were married she has continued to do that without owning up to her own crap and accusing me of everything using the kind of words that she knows will gain the most benefit in her direction. I have tried to present both sides of the story as much as I could, confessing my sins as well as explaining what she has done. For that I am accused of blame shifting, while she gets off without judgment by claiming to be blame free.
All I'm asking for is equal fair and balanced consideration so that we can resolve conflict, not perpetuate it to beyond the point of no return.
Here's the compromise offer I made several weeks ago that has been completely rejected by my wife and her pastors:
We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church You Attend" And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended" And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on. If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time. If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend". If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all. My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is the way I see a healthy marriage relationship is like a dance or couples skating. I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request. I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage, Love, "Me"
And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns
We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended"
And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns
Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on.
If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time.
If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend".
If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all.
My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is the way I see a healthy marriage relationship is like a dance or couples skating. I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request.
I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage,
Love,
"Me"
It’s easy to be seduced by people when they are validating a person remaining a victim to their circumstances and not working to repair their lives and marriages. When the advice comes from fellow people who are angry and want their pound of flesh, it’s hard to objectively see a situation for what it is and not what they think it is.
You’re not crazy, She just refuses to see the truth.
I sent her the following email last night:
Hey Zogi, I used to be Average Joe but that was taken they said.
Anyway, you have been on my mind ever since the old forums shut down. I cannot believe how you are being treated. It makes me sick the way men are always made to be the one at fault. You are bending over backwards to make every effort to restore your marriage. I don't know how you have stuck it out for so long.
I would be fuming mad if I found out about being served papers from a forum. Talk about a low blow. I can't offer anything but prayers. Sometimes I just can't believe what I read here. Unbelievable.
Hi, I'm Mrs. Zogi. Just found out that the FL Forum is up and running.
Zogi: I am so sick of being told I am abusive, controlling, manipulative, unrepentant, ungodly and unwilling to change for over 6 years. So CHANGE! That is not who or what I am by any stretch of the imagination. Have I done anything to deserve those lables? Sure, I have, but not to the degree that those labels would indicate. If my wife cannot get over the things I have done, she needs psychological help for being very emotionally weak, We have been to 2 psychologists for counseling. He refused to listen when they tried to address HIS behaviors! I am healing from the past. You just keep doing the same things over and over. "because I know I have not been that hard to deal with for the average person." BET ME!! How many times have you been fired?? How do you deal with authority figures in your life?? Additionally, I do not naturally hurt people on a routine basis on purpose without being provoked well beyond what normal people can take. I'm just not that unreasonable of a person. You don't see yourself as you really are! All it takes to provoke you is to disagree with you! I have sincerely apologized for my failures, been to marriage counselors, met with pastors, etc. and everyone buys into her version of what our relationship is like much in the same way they have over on the site being discussed by DIC, without giving any time or merit to what I have to say. Apology without change! Actions speak louder than words! And your actions have not changed. And Pastors, counselors, etc. have their own educated eyes and ears. What no one seems to realize is my wife has a 140 IQ and has been very talented at making herself look good her whole life. Ever since we were married she has continued to do that without owning up to her own crap and accusing me of everything using the kind of words that she knows will gain the most benefit in her direction. I have tried to present both sides of the story as much as I could, confessing my sins as well as explaining what she has done. For that I am accused of blame shifting, while she gets off without judgment by claiming to be blame free. First you call me weak. Now you are saying that I am clever. Hmmmm... Can't be both, can it! Can I be so clever as to fool them all, or are their knowledgeable conclusions true? And I might add, I didn't marry a 'dummy'! All I'm asking for is equal fair and balanced consideration so that we can resolve conflict, not perpetuate it to beyond the point of no return. Here's the compromise offer I made several weeks ago that has been completely rejected by my wife and her pastors: We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church You Attend" And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended" And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns When was the last time you attended 'your' church? You can't lie about it. I know people over there! Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on. If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time. If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend". If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all. My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request. Please learn how to 'skate' from the experts! Then I will happily, joyously dance with you! I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage, Love, "Me" Forum participants, Because you are taking everything my Husband says at face value, all you are doing is enabling him in justifying his abusive behavior. I wish I could get our adult kids on here to tell you all that they witnessed in our home! Maybe I can get our 20 y.o. son to come here. Would THAT be enough 'proof' ? Would you THEN believe that what you hear him say is ONLY what he wants you to hear, so he can 'strengthen' his stance and justifications?? Minimal conditions: ME leave our church. The-"Go 2wks. there, go 2 wks. here" stuff is just a temporary ploy to humor me. He has already said he won't go back to our church. BTW- CHURCH=ACCOUNTABILITY. ME move in with HIM- into an abusive situation!! Only agreeing to meeting with a counselor IF I DO WHAT HE WANTS! CONTROL AND MANIPULATION! Sorry people- I've lived it. I'm not going back into an abusive situation. Do I want my marriage? YES! But I will not live with an abusive man. He needs to address this subject, not just apologize for it and make excuses for his bad behavior! JEFF, HOPE YOU'LL DECIDE TO DO WHAT IT TAKES! WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU! Nancy
I am so sick of being told I am abusive, controlling, manipulative, unrepentant, ungodly and unwilling to change for over 6 years.
So CHANGE!
That is not who or what I am by any stretch of the imagination. Have I done anything to deserve those lables? Sure, I have, but not to the degree that those labels would indicate. If my wife cannot get over the things I have done, she needs psychological help for being very emotionally weak,
We have been to 2 psychologists for counseling. He refused to listen when they tried to address HIS behaviors!
I am healing from the past. You just keep doing the same things over and over.
"because I know I have not been that hard to deal with for the average person."
BET ME!! How many times have you been fired?? How do you deal with authority figures in your life??
Additionally, I do not naturally hurt people on a routine basis on purpose without being provoked well beyond what normal people can take. I'm just not that unreasonable of a person.
You don't see yourself as you really are! All it takes to provoke you is to disagree with you!
I have sincerely apologized for my failures, been to marriage counselors, met with pastors, etc. and everyone buys into her version of what our relationship is like much in the same way they have over on the site being discussed by DIC, without giving any time or merit to what I have to say.
Apology without change! Actions speak louder than words! And your actions have not changed. And Pastors, counselors, etc. have their own educated eyes and ears.
What no one seems to realize is my wife has a 140 IQ and has been very talented at making herself look good her whole life. Ever since we were married she has continued to do that without owning up to her own crap and accusing me of everything using the kind of words that she knows will gain the most benefit in her direction. I have tried to present both sides of the story as much as I could, confessing my sins as well as explaining what she has done. For that I am accused of blame shifting, while she gets off without judgment by claiming to be blame free.
First you call me weak. Now you are saying that I am clever. Hmmmm... Can't be both, can it! Can I be so clever as to fool them all, or are their knowledgeable conclusions true?
And I might add, I didn't marry a 'dummy'!
We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church You Attend" And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended" And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns When was the last time you attended 'your' church? You can't lie about it. I know people over there! Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on. If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time. If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend". If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all. My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request. Please learn how to 'skate' from the experts! Then I will happily, joyously dance with you! I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage, Love, "Me"
When was the last time you attended 'your' church? You can't lie about it. I know people over there!
My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request.
Please learn how to 'skate' from the experts! Then I will happily, joyously dance with you!
Forum participants,
Because you are taking everything my Husband says at face value, all you are doing is enabling him in justifying his abusive behavior. I wish I could get our adult kids on here to tell you all that they witnessed in our home! Maybe I can get our 20 y.o. son to come here. Would THAT be enough 'proof' ? Would you THEN believe that what you hear him say is ONLY what he wants you to hear, so he can 'strengthen' his stance and justifications??
Minimal conditions: ME leave our church. The-"Go 2wks. there, go 2 wks. here" stuff is just a temporary ploy to humor me. He has already said he won't go back to our church. BTW- CHURCH=ACCOUNTABILITY.
ME move in with HIM- into an abusive situation!!
Only agreeing to meeting with a counselor IF I DO WHAT HE WANTS!
CONTROL AND MANIPULATION!
Sorry people- I've lived it. I'm not going back into an abusive situation. Do I want my marriage? YES! But I will not live with an abusive man. He needs to address this subject, not just apologize for it and make excuses for his bad behavior!
JEFF,
HOPE YOU'LL DECIDE TO DO WHAT IT TAKES! WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU!
Nancy
Our kids know it takes 2 to tango and if they come on here and say anything other than we fought a lot, I'll be completely shocked. Our oldest son knows and he also knows I have owned my own stuff. My fuse isn't as short as all you need to do is disagree with me. It's how you disagree and what the conflict is over and who it is in front of. Our kids witnessed far too much conflict because we fought in front of them and about them far too much, because everything I was trying to accomplish while correcting them would be interrupted and destroyed by an ugly fight after I was confronted in front of them. Things like that will irritate even the best of us. Other reasons are long term unresolved conflict. I've been over those things before. Like I have said, I have made mistakes, but most of it involves dealing with rejection and disrespect and how I improperly handled those things that came often. This isn't about the remote control, the toilet seat or the toothpaste roll. This is about raising the kids, the domestic responsibilities and how they have been carried out and what church we should belong to.
We didn't quit the marriage counseling because I refused to address my behaviors. The first one took your side and pushed me away to have you to herself after she labeled me and wrote me off so she could promote her go girl feminist agenda. The second marriage counseling ended when I had to go into the hospital for emergency surgery and soon after that a major financial setback when the client I built a custom home for defaulted on the $115K he promised in front of witnesses.
As far as me being fired, I can think of once and that's an interesting story. I also worked for a company for nearly 10 yrs while everyone else typically lasted less than 6 months.
The authorities I won't submit to are authorities that many other good men refuse to submit to as well. They are the men that prey on weak women such as my wife who has a strong will, but weak character.
Oh yeah I almost forgot
CONTROL AND MANIPULATION
Me: Accept my very fair compromise offer or cut me free from this limbo.
Her: Read Joel and kathy's books, join their website and submit to their twisted theology, or I'll file legal papers and demand child support.
OneLovedByGod:Hi, I'm Mrs. Zogi. Just found out that the FL Forum is up and running. Zogi: I am so sick of being told I am abusive, controlling, manipulative, unrepentant, ungodly and unwilling to change for over 6 years. So CHANGE! Change what? Be specific. You can't cite things that he hasn't done in years and keep holding on to them. I suggested that each of you come to the table with specifics and put your lists out there, and let one another pick from the lists, with measurable results and feedback.To just say change, without being specific is not helpful. OneLovedByGod: That is not who or what I am by any stretch of the imagination. Have I done anything to deserve those lables? Sure, I have, but not to the degree that those labels would indicate. If my wife cannot get over the things I have done, she needs psychological help for being very emotionally weak, We have been to 2 psychologists for counseling. He refused to listen when they tried to address HIS behaviors! I am healing from the past. You just keep doing the same things over and over. "because I know I have not been that hard to deal with for the average person." BET ME!! How many times have you been fired?? How do you deal with authority figures in your life?? You likely have a point here, and I pray that Zogi would seriously consider this. OneLovedByGod: Additionally, I do not naturally hurt people on a routine basis on purpose without being provoked well beyond what normal people can take. I'm just not that unreasonable of a person. You don't see yourself as you really are! All it takes to provoke you is to disagree with you! I have sincerely apologized for my failures, been to marriage counselors, met with pastors, etc. and everyone buys into her version of what our relationship is like much in the same way they have over on the site being discussed by DIC, without giving any time or merit to what I have to say. Apology without change! Actions speak louder than words! And your actions have not changed. And Pastors, counselors, etc. have their own educated eyes and ears. Again, be specific. When was the last time he did something like this? At some point, you have to forgive him and not blame everything on him. OneLovedByGod: What no one seems to realize is my wife has a 140 IQ and has been very talented at making herself look good her whole life. Ever since we were married she has continued to do that without owning up to her own crap and accusing me of everything using the kind of words that she knows will gain the most benefit in her direction. I have tried to present both sides of the story as much as I could, confessing my sins as well as explaining what she has done. For that I am accused of blame shifting, while she gets off without judgment by claiming to be blame free. First you call me weak. Now you are saying that I am clever. Hmmmm... Can't be both, can it! Can I be so clever as to fool them all, or are their knowledgeable conclusions true? The two are not mutually exclusive. One can be weak, yet still be clever. So this argument is not logically supported. OneLovedByGod: And I might add, I didn't marry a 'dummy'! All I'm asking for is equal fair and balanced consideration so that we can resolve conflict, not perpetuate it to beyond the point of no return. Here's the compromise offer I made several weeks ago that has been completely rejected by my wife and her pastors: We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church You Attend" And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended" And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns When was the last time you attended 'your' church? You can't lie about it. I know people over there! That provocation. Instead of saying this, provoking him, why not accept with a condition, that if he goes for X period of time without skipping church, you will join him. Instead of addressing the problem, you ATTACKED your husband. That's right, it was an attack. Both of you are about being right. It doesn't appear either of you want to solve this issue, you each want to be right about the issues as you each see them. It's not just a Zogi problem here. OneLovedByGod: Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on. If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time. If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend". If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all. My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request. Please learn how to 'skate' from the experts! Then I will happily, joyously dance with you! You have to agree on the experts. If he doesn't trust your experts, you have to treat that as valid as you want him to treat your lack of trust. You paint this as if he is wrong. You don't trust him and he has to work to earn your trust. Fair enough. You and the folks you offer to work along side you guys have to do the very same thing. You too have broken trust. Not in the same ways, but you have done it.So will you comitt to working with Zogi to find help you both agree upon? This has nothing to do with what you think he will or will not do, my question is what will YOU do? OneLovedByGod: I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage, Love, "Me" Forum participants, Because you are taking everything my Husband says at face value, all you are doing is enabling him in justifying his abusive behavior. I'm not taking either of you at face value. For I can see that you are at least as much of the problem as he is. You claim he is combative, yet your post is full of combative and attacking statements. So what will you do?How have you validated his concerns about your church, how he feels as if what he says, feels and believes is totally discounted? How do you expect him to put down his defenses if he cannot trust those who claim they want to help the marriage.Think of how you don't trust him, now that is likely the very same thing he is feeling about many of the folks you've sought help from. OneLovedByGod:I wish I could get our adult kids on here to tell you all that they witnessed in our home! Why, so you can make your husband and you look bad? Putting your kids in the middle of this is absolutely sick. That's about being right, not solving the issue. How could you even suggest such a thing? OneLovedByGod:Maybe I can get our 20 y.o. son to come here. Would THAT be enough 'proof' ? Would you THEN believe that what you hear him say is ONLY what he wants you to hear, so he can 'strengthen' his stance and justifications?? It would prove that you are about being right and not about solving any issues. What issues do you solve by having someone testify on your behalf? How is doing this going to earn the trust of your husband.Given what you've said here, he too has AMPLE reason not to trust you. OneLovedByGod: Minimal conditions: ME leave our church. The-"Go 2wks. there, go 2 wks. here" stuff is just a temporary ploy to humor me. He has already said he won't go back to our church. BTW- CHURCH=ACCOUNTABILITY. He doesn't trust your church. What has the pastor done to address those valid concerns? If you say they are not valid, then I'd say Zogi get's to judge if your concerns about him are valid or not. Since I don't think you would go for that, then validate his concerns like you would like yours validated. OneLovedByGod: ME move in with HIM- into an abusive situation!! You don't know that. You may fear it, and I understand that. However, how are you addressing his fears? It's a two way street. He too has valid fears. OneLovedByGod: Only agreeing to meeting with a counselor IF I DO WHAT HE WANTS! CONTROL AND MANIPULATION! You both are playing power and control games right now, not just him. So what are you doing to find a solution that BOTH of you agree upon? OneLovedByGod: Sorry people- I've lived it. I'm not going back into an abusive situation. Do I want my marriage? YES! But I will not live with an abusive man. He needs to address this subject, not just apologize for it and make excuses for his bad behavior! Then where is your list? What did you do to address his fears? You can't just put all of this on him and tell him to fix it all. He has listed valid concerns and you have all but ignored them, but expect that he fix something to your satisfaction.You both are playing control games here. OneLovedByGod: JEFF, HOPE YOU'LL DECIDE TO DO WHAT IT TAKES! WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU! Nancy
Zogi: I am so sick of being told I am abusive, controlling, manipulative, unrepentant, ungodly and unwilling to change for over 6 years. So CHANGE!
Change what? Be specific. You can't cite things that he hasn't done in years and keep holding on to them. I suggested that each of you come to the table with specifics and put your lists out there, and let one another pick from the lists, with measurable results and feedback.
OneLovedByGod: That is not who or what I am by any stretch of the imagination. Have I done anything to deserve those lables? Sure, I have, but not to the degree that those labels would indicate. If my wife cannot get over the things I have done, she needs psychological help for being very emotionally weak, We have been to 2 psychologists for counseling. He refused to listen when they tried to address HIS behaviors! I am healing from the past. You just keep doing the same things over and over. "because I know I have not been that hard to deal with for the average person." BET ME!! How many times have you been fired?? How do you deal with authority figures in your life??
You likely have a point here, and I pray that Zogi would seriously consider this.
OneLovedByGod: Additionally, I do not naturally hurt people on a routine basis on purpose without being provoked well beyond what normal people can take. I'm just not that unreasonable of a person. You don't see yourself as you really are! All it takes to provoke you is to disagree with you! I have sincerely apologized for my failures, been to marriage counselors, met with pastors, etc. and everyone buys into her version of what our relationship is like much in the same way they have over on the site being discussed by DIC, without giving any time or merit to what I have to say. Apology without change! Actions speak louder than words! And your actions have not changed. And Pastors, counselors, etc. have their own educated eyes and ears.
Again, be specific. When was the last time he did something like this? At some point, you have to forgive him and not blame everything on him.
OneLovedByGod: What no one seems to realize is my wife has a 140 IQ and has been very talented at making herself look good her whole life. Ever since we were married she has continued to do that without owning up to her own crap and accusing me of everything using the kind of words that she knows will gain the most benefit in her direction. I have tried to present both sides of the story as much as I could, confessing my sins as well as explaining what she has done. For that I am accused of blame shifting, while she gets off without judgment by claiming to be blame free. First you call me weak. Now you are saying that I am clever. Hmmmm... Can't be both, can it! Can I be so clever as to fool them all, or are their knowledgeable conclusions true?
The two are not mutually exclusive. One can be weak, yet still be clever. So this argument is not logically supported.
OneLovedByGod: And I might add, I didn't marry a 'dummy'! All I'm asking for is equal fair and balanced consideration so that we can resolve conflict, not perpetuate it to beyond the point of no return. Here's the compromise offer I made several weeks ago that has been completely rejected by my wife and her pastors: We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church You Attend" And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended" And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns When was the last time you attended 'your' church? You can't lie about it. I know people over there! That provocation. Instead of saying this, provoking him, why not accept with a condition, that if he goes for X period of time without skipping church, you will join him. Instead of addressing the problem, you ATTACKED your husband. That's right, it was an attack. Both of you are about being right. It doesn't appear either of you want to solve this issue, you each want to be right about the issues as you each see them. It's not just a Zogi problem here. OneLovedByGod: Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on. If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time. If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend". If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all. My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request. Please learn how to 'skate' from the experts! Then I will happily, joyously dance with you! You have to agree on the experts. If he doesn't trust your experts, you have to treat that as valid as you want him to treat your lack of trust. You paint this as if he is wrong. You don't trust him and he has to work to earn your trust. Fair enough. You and the folks you offer to work along side you guys have to do the very same thing. You too have broken trust. Not in the same ways, but you have done it.So will you comitt to working with Zogi to find help you both agree upon? This has nothing to do with what you think he will or will not do, my question is what will YOU do? OneLovedByGod: I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage, Love, "Me" Forum participants, Because you are taking everything my Husband says at face value, all you are doing is enabling him in justifying his abusive behavior.
We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church You Attend" And meet at least once with Pastors ***and ***** to discuss questions and concerns We both attend 2 Sundays @ "The Church I Attended" And meet at least once with Pastors *** and ******** to discuss questions and concerns When was the last time you attended 'your' church? You can't lie about it. I know people over there!
That provocation. Instead of saying this, provoking him, why not accept with a condition, that if he goes for X period of time without skipping church, you will join him. Instead of addressing the problem, you ATTACKED your husband. That's right, it was an attack. Both of you are about being right. It doesn't appear either of you want to solve this issue, you each want to be right about the issues as you each see them. It's not just a Zogi problem here.
OneLovedByGod: Meet to try and decide what we will do from there as far as The Church is concerned, by either repeating the process or picking one of those 2 Churches or looking for another Church that we both agree on. If and when you agree to live with me again as my wife, not just a glorified room mate, I will agree to find and pay for a Marriage Therapist that we both like and commit to weekly sessions for 3 months minimum, as long as it (you living with me again as my wife) is sooner than later and within a reasonable amount of time. If you are willing to commit to those minimum conditions, then please let me know as soon as possible so I can contact Pastors *** and ******** and let them know what our plans are and that we would like to set up a meeting or 2 with them. Also, the sooner you let me know, the sooner I will be able to commit to the first 2 Sundays at the "Church You Attend". If you are not willing to commit to those very minimum conditions, then please let me know soon so I can move on with my life and get out of this limbo once and for all. My hope and desire is that you accept these minimal conditions. I know you are still hurt by things I have done in the past and even the not so distant past, including a lot of the things I posted on FL. All I will say about that right now is I have been hurt very badly too. As I mentioned on FL as well as the other night is I’m not interested in being a domineering abusive husband at all. I want to dance with you and skate with you through the rest of our lives together. I hope you say yes to this dance request. Please learn how to 'skate' from the experts! Then I will happily, joyously dance with you!
You have to agree on the experts. If he doesn't trust your experts, you have to treat that as valid as you want him to treat your lack of trust. You paint this as if he is wrong. You don't trust him and he has to work to earn your trust. Fair enough. You and the folks you offer to work along side you guys have to do the very same thing. You too have broken trust. Not in the same ways, but you have done it.
So will you comitt to working with Zogi to find help you both agree upon? This has nothing to do with what you think he will or will not do, my question is what will YOU do?
OneLovedByGod: I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you as my wife in a healthy marriage, Love, "Me"
Because you are taking everything my Husband says at face value, all you are doing is enabling him in justifying his abusive behavior.
I'm not taking either of you at face value. For I can see that you are at least as much of the problem as he is. You claim he is combative, yet your post is full of combative and attacking statements. So what will you do?
How have you validated his concerns about your church, how he feels as if what he says, feels and believes is totally discounted? How do you expect him to put down his defenses if he cannot trust those who claim they want to help the marriage.
OneLovedByGod:I wish I could get our adult kids on here to tell you all that they witnessed in our home!
I wish I could get our adult kids on here to tell you all that they witnessed in our home!
Why, so you can make your husband and you look bad? Putting your kids in the middle of this is absolutely sick. That's about being right, not solving the issue. How could you even suggest such a thing?
OneLovedByGod:Maybe I can get our 20 y.o. son to come here. Would THAT be enough 'proof' ? Would you THEN believe that what you hear him say is ONLY what he wants you to hear, so he can 'strengthen' his stance and justifications??
Maybe I can get our 20 y.o. son to come here. Would THAT be enough 'proof' ? Would you THEN believe that what you hear him say is ONLY what he wants you to hear, so he can 'strengthen' his stance and justifications??
It would prove that you are about being right and not about solving any issues. What issues do you solve by having someone testify on your behalf? How is doing this going to earn the trust of your husband.
Given what you've said here, he too has AMPLE reason not to trust you.
OneLovedByGod: Minimal conditions: ME leave our church. The-"Go 2wks. there, go 2 wks. here" stuff is just a temporary ploy to humor me. He has already said he won't go back to our church. BTW- CHURCH=ACCOUNTABILITY.
He doesn't trust your church. What has the pastor done to address those valid concerns? If you say they are not valid, then I'd say Zogi get's to judge if your concerns about him are valid or not. Since I don't think you would go for that, then validate his concerns like you would like yours validated.
OneLovedByGod: ME move in with HIM- into an abusive situation!!
You don't know that. You may fear it, and I understand that. However, how are you addressing his fears? It's a two way street. He too has valid fears.
OneLovedByGod: Only agreeing to meeting with a counselor IF I DO WHAT HE WANTS! CONTROL AND MANIPULATION!
You both are playing power and control games right now, not just him. So what are you doing to find a solution that BOTH of you agree upon?
OneLovedByGod: Sorry people- I've lived it. I'm not going back into an abusive situation. Do I want my marriage? YES! But I will not live with an abusive man. He needs to address this subject, not just apologize for it and make excuses for his bad behavior!
Then where is your list? What did you do to address his fears? You can't just put all of this on him and tell him to fix it all. He has listed valid concerns and you have all but ignored them, but expect that he fix something to your satisfaction.
OneLovedByGod: JEFF, HOPE YOU'LL DECIDE TO DO WHAT IT TAKES! WE ARE ALL PULLING FOR YOU! Nancy
You aren't controlling? Cone on Zogi. Who are you trying to fool?
Humph, Joel' a coward?Didn't Jesus saying something about a log and a splinter?Why aren't you starting a thread?What motivates that?What could it hurt?What do you have to lose?
OTH, if you don't, I have a clue what you have to lose...Someone else will hear her heart and lay down his life for her.... I am sure of it...
