FamilyLife Forums

Guys opinion needed (straight and to the point)-

I have an odd question I hope and pray someone on here can guide me to a better understanding. My wife (whom I love and honor eternally) have been having troubles for many years now. She feels all is great, in spite of my discussions with her. She hopes and prays for me to realize how great  I have it. I do have a great family of kids and the best mother for my children. The short of it is, I have a strong desire to connect and share emotionally with her, yet over the past six years my views have skewed (?sp?) so far off while trying to find where truth is at regarding us. I somehow need to get back on track, and pray for that every day. So much so that it is affecting me in everything I do and cannot seem to dedicate to the tasks at hand during the day. Her view (which I disagree with but acknowledge her concern), is sexuality (love making or seeing each other without clothes) is an "allowed SIN in marriage". It is like she has never left her initial home (as defined in the scriptures) and embraced what I view as God's great blessing to a couple not to mention the trust devloped. She said it takes her days to feel "spiritual" again after making love (nothing wierd and always in the dark). That directly says to me, you are not to be desired and are the cause of any relationship gap with God in her life. Opposite of what a husband and spiritual leader is supposed to be.  I need help, as I have tried to be sensitive to her belief.

It has gotten so bad, that my thoughts have started to wander to people I used to date (I was a virgin up until after my wedding night). Sample journal entry - "Kept on having bad/inappropriate reoccurring dreams last night about those who I used to date just because those thoughts toward my wife she believes is sinful and makes her feel like she needs days/weeks to repent (from just making love in the dark-nothing unusual). I am married now and love my wife eternally and faithfully. Those sporadic thoughts and dreams keep coming up more and more lately no matter how hard I try to redirect my thoughts. I pray which is the only thing I can think of to do. How can God's blessing of marriage intimacy become devalued to the same state as rapist or sex outside of marriage (according to my wife sex is allowed or 'can be forgiven of in marriage'). Those thoughts bug me everytime during that time now to the point of I no longer initiate because of knowing her beliefs and me not wanting to be rejected. I go out of town a lot on business, and pray so hard for my thoughts not to wander where they don't need to go. Everything I have prayed about and read in the scriptures (right down to Adam and Eve's relationship) seem to support what I think, but that might be a self justification. Any thoughts - and yes I have gone alone to meet with a marriage counselor, read about every book out on the market both Christian and secular, but need other input from someone who has been through this. Divorce is not an option. There has got to be help out there, yet guys don't talk about this openly out in the community.

I'm not sure I can help, but I am able to question and comment.

Has your wife experienced sexual abuse as a child?

My ex did not enjoy having sex with me. I too, was hurt from being rejected. It was not only her fault nor was it all mine. It was the baggage that we both carried into our marriage. Then we both proceeded to putting up walls and seeking ways to substitute our wants and needs.

About the dreams.
I've heard it said many times during my counseling sessions from friends, family, and professionals. "you can only work on yourself, you can't change your wife"

I fully understand the temptations whether it be pornography or "the grass is greener over there", "I wonder what it would be like if I would have married so and so",

I had a chance to have sex in highschool with a beautiful woman and there were times that I kicked myself for not doing it, etc..... These are the devil placing billboards in your life.

I believe that you need to give it all to God and work on yourself. When I get close to God and I try to desire Him the most, usually of my sexual desires dissapate.

Remember that your situation could be alot worse. For me, it would be wonderful to be in your shoes. Because, heck, I'm not having sex now, it's been about 6 years. At least you have the companionship of your wife and family. You will not find a so called "soul mate". The devil may place one out there for you to be infatuated with, but that's only infatuation. Marriage is a whole lot more than sex. I think the more you make sex a priority in your life, the more the devil will use that against you.

 Love the one your with. Protect and enjoy what you have. You don't know what you have until it is gone. take many cold showers. Keep praying and seeking counseling with your dear wife.

Blessings

The idea that sex within a marriage is a sin is seriously messed up.  Don't have any specific advice to offer though other than to tread VERY lightly when trying to help her see how wrong that thinking is.  Like the other poster said, it could come from previous sexual abuse. It could just as easily have come from her parents too though. Any idea or any way of finding out what attitudes about sex they passed on to her?

---

Chaz345

Thanks for both of your feedback.

'New International Version' - Thanks for your honest insight. Interestingly enough last night after nearly two decades of marriage, she shared an incident that occurred while in Jr High that was devastating to her and has influenced her life ever since. Many more things are beginning to come into focus with that understanding. We do love each other more than anything, and I have done everything possible to turn away the dreams and quick thoughts. I acknowledge and want more than anything the uncontrolled thoughts to be about her and us connecting. I really think the dreams are my subconscious way of trying to deal with the fact of feeling/knowing those thoughts/actions about my wife drive her to thoughts of needing to repent afterwards, and I instead turn to the next closest thing (which is wrong). I do not have any conscious desire and any thoughts about anyone else in that light are wrong, and every effort through prayer, study, and distraction are employed to help get rid of those and refocus on what is important in our relationship.

You are correct; I have a great family and have been very blessed. I made the decision to go to marriage counseling alone (plus she did not want to go which makes sense with what was shared last night) to do exactly as you discussed - to work on myself and change what God and I can. Anything I share with her is presented in how I feel ..., interpret..., from my perspective ... Not how marriage should be or what she might be interpreted as being "wrong". I can only hope and pray that by communicating about those sensitive topics that we can develop our own way of compromising and growing together. The difficulty arises that she does not think these things should be talked about and I cannot get any clarification of why. I have not figured out is the reason for that statement that I should just know what she is thinking, or does she feel the conversation is inappropriate to talk about. I can now see (as I am typing) the reason might be based on her feelings of what happened to her in Jr High will be brought up if we talk about this and she felt I might not love her the same for some reason if I ever found out.

Re-'Chaz' - I do not agree with her feelings regarding sex is an "allowed sin", but is God's blessing in breaking through the cold emotionless layers that affect a lot of men (have to be that way all throughout each day at work) and reconnect physically, emotionally, and spiritually with our wife and trusted companion. I think many men would agree they want to connect at an emotional level with their wife. Some are just better at coping and turning that emotional switch without the physical side ever being needed. However, I do acknowledge the difficult transition for some ladies to go from their root teachings of "Don't ever, You should never think about ...., You will get pregnant and regret it the rest of your life" to marriage. So many were raised with scare tactics instead of teaching. My parents were very strict, but they at least had a balanced approach in this area with me and my sisters. I have committed to teaching my children the true positive side of God's blessing of sex within marriage and the union and power it brings to unite and build up each other; as well as the reasons why it is not appropriate outside of marriage to ...... My wife brought up a great point I have been over looking with teaching my daughters lately. I have had very direct and indirect conversations with them about the obvious points of gender. However, she asked why do we teach them cross your legs and be a lady, put your dress back down be a lady, stop running around the house without clothes (the kids streak through the house looking for clothes after baths instead of taking their pajamas into the bathroom to begin with), please pick a different shirt it shows too much of your chest, etc. My wife stated to her these statements without qualifiers reinforce the teaching the body is to be ashamed of, unlady like, and never be seen or enjoyed (within marriage of course). I need to develop a better way of communicating with my kids, so that we are consistent with our message and they look forward appropriately to being married.

Two friends have had affairs in their marriage because they did not keep up their guard for their marriage, and kept compromising on the little things. One of them was a spiritually minded guy that kept trying his best, but fell once when he was out of town and got drunk. I don't drink, but the point of always wanting to be in the position of being faithful and true to my beautiful wife is key to my belief. The dreams are really bothering me, the loneliness is nearly unbearable at times especially when I am away on business or for days am emotionless and cold as I go to work very early morning before any one is up-return home to chaos of kids wrestling-and go to bed feeling alone and untouched only to wake up and repeat the next day. I pray for the strength and understanding (especially what my wife recently told me) to be there to support and comfort her as she deals with what she needs to deal with. Thanks for letting me vent, and hope/pray there is an answer out there some day. Any more suggestions are very welcome.

 

Hmm, I have heard a similar thing about my grandmother:  she hated sex.  According to my mother, she got from her mother.  In essence, my grandmother was told:

 

(1) Sex was a sin; but a required one.

(2) Women should not enjoy it (I have never heard a reason for this)

(3) Stop it when you have all the kids you want.

I don't know what to tell you...the best thing would just to point out to her that sex within marriage is not a sin.

Agree with above. It sounds like your wife has some significant emotional baggage--either from trauma or from being raised with erroneous attitudes in this area (like c pruitt's poor dysfunctional grandmother)

At this late date, she may not be able to change and give you what you need but you can at least make sure she understands what the Scripture actually teaches. TO WIT:  GOD invented sexuality and declared it good.(Genesis1 & 2 )  Before marriage,  we are commanded not to do it.  After marriage though,  WE ARE COMMANDED  TO DO IT!!!!! ( 1st Corinthians 7 ).  The very notion  of marital sex being a "sin" at all--"permitted" or otherwise--- is  UNBIBLICAL.  And the idea that women shouldn't enjoy it--- is also UNBIBLICAL!!! ( see also: Solomon, Song of)

God bless you buddy. You're in a tough spot.

Joel213

P.S. In Proverbs 30, there are 4 things are listed that are never satisfied-- that never say "enough" : Sheol, parched ground (for water), fire, and the barren womb.  Now honestly, just what do you suppose it is that "the barren womb" never gets enough of ? Hmmm?  

joel213:

At this late date, she may not be able to change and give you what you need but you can at least make sure she understands what the Scripture actually teaches.

It's never too late. A couple of years ago we had here a woman who seemed to be pretty similar to the OP's wife in terms of her attitudes on sex. The difference being that she was in her 60's.  If everything that she said is to be believed, she finally "got it" and the last we heard they were going at it like bunnies making up for lost time.

---

Chaz345

ScooterGrad,
Welcome to FL forum. Thank you for sharing. As the Body of Christ, we feel this pain, yours and your wife's!  Most of us here have gone through or are going through some painful things. 

I have been a member here for 9 years, so I know you are not alone in going through these kinds of issues. I recall one man in particular who has become such an awesome Godly man while enduring a no- or very low-sex marriage. Since the forum's recent format change, I don't think there are still archives to read some of his posts but he truly blessed many of us. He obviously found a rich intimacy with God -- what a treasure!!!  So at this stage of your situation, brother, I encourage you too to draw near to God and He will draw near to you and produce in you something that truly brings Him glory and blesses many others!!  What you let God teach you now, will give you the compassion and wisdom to support another brother who confides in you.

Right now I desire & pray asking God to bring to completion the great work He already started in you and your dear wife and marriage!  His Word promises He will complete it so somehow God is at work!  Believe that and look forward with full Faith and Expectation in HIM!!  Acknowledge Him in all your ways, and His job is to direct your path. Keep listening for His Spirit for what He wants you to do next!  God knows your wife's heart and experiences, and He will guide in this covenant of which He is part!  Where there are false beliefs, He wants to uproot and plant truth. It can be very painful until the roots are found and during uprooting, but truth is powerful, healing, and victorious.


I commend you for your "right spirit".  As the scripture says "live with her according to understanding". You are seeking understanding so that you can be a safe place for her heart.  She obviously perceives you as safe because she has been able to come forward now with a painful piece from her past. Praise God for this sign that she is opening up!!  This is the way to healing, to get wrong stuff out of hiding in our souls and brought into light of truth where it can be carefully dealt with!!!  You should probably continue to get Christian counsel about how to handle this "piece" (and possibly more pieces that surface) in a way that facilitates her growth and healing.

I hope it will help you & your wife if I explain some of the road I've walked....

I was raised in a very strict home.  My mother became a Christian when I was a baby and my dad gave his life to Christ a few years later. They thought they were filled with the Spirit and doing this Christian life right. But I didn't feel things were right. For one thing, their histories did not prepare them to know how to have a Godly loving marriage.  I learned that sexuality was shameful and quite likely dating/marriage is the result of lust.

So God had a big job on His hands to reshape me into the wife He designed me to be!!! Fortunately,  teachings especially at Christian college positively changed my views of myself and marriage. I felt more whole. But I now know the root had not been fully dealt with.

God wanted me to find more truth and know Him and be healed even deeper, including from religiousness, etc. that entrapped my spirit. 

I married.... 

To my shock, I found myself in an abusive marriage 17 years 'til he abandoned me.  The bottomline -- I learned that my ex was extremely "shame-based", as was my father, the result of wounds in their lives and false religious ideas they were taught and accepted.    So too, ScooterGrad, your wife holds some false theology and possibly past trauma, and it is all basically about this-- SHAME.

She is still in effect living under the law & curse where none of us can measure up and we feel worthless and never holy enough.  Under shame, we hide due to sinful things we did or others did to us, and we walk around with a false sense of guilt or believing we are to blame for things we had no control of!  Under shame, even the things God created to be beautiful like marriage and sexuality, we can't see as they really are, as God designed them to be! 

But the truth is, God's Son took both sin and shame to the cross so we can be healed spiritually and from our wounds!  In Christ, we walk in the Spirit where we have liberty and fullness of all God has for us.

But some Christians are still trying to measure up.  Christ put a robe of righteousness on us, but they don't know it is there! They have wounds that they have never brought to Jesus so that He can heal them. They think they have the truth because they got saved and have religious views, but they are in shame and without full truth and joy!  In families, parents tend to pass their shame on to their kids.

The good news is, wounded, shame-bound people can come out of hiding and be healed by GRACE, thanks to Jesus!!   God saw the shame that grew in my spirit from my upbringing and through my bad marriage. He gave me truth and grace that released me!   I wanted them restored too but they resisted.  

Anyway, brother, your wife and marriage can be healed!!!  Jesus your wife to have truth and to be set free to enjoy your husbandly love!!!  

You have the opportunity to let God's love flow through you to heal her.  I know you will let that happen!! ... Express love to her that accepts the person, spirit, soul, body that she is. If she talks in shame-like ways, like she isn't good enough or something, know that is the wound, so you speak words that energize and inspire her and give truth that erases what is untrue.  One day I believe by faith she is going to be free and blossom! 

God bless you.  If I can be of further help, let me know.  I'll be praying for the miracle to keep unfolding and be complete and beautiful!!!     

To correct a mis-type above... it should say:

Jesus wants your wife to have truth.....

Thanks for your inspiring insight. This past week, I can see her trying to at least acknowledge some things aren't right in our relationship. So far the progress is in her statement, "I hope some day you can realize how great you have it".  I do have a great family, and try to uplift/compliment her on specific things everyday and always build her up in front of the kids.

My prayer is to be able to feel that God-like confidence again someday, as I am slowly realizing that it is only through Him (not your wife, best friend, or any other person on earth) that eternal happiness and confidence will grow from the inside-out and not from outside-in. The resolution for this new month is to read 10 minutes a day in the scriptures, 10 minutes a day from a book called "Bonds That Make Us Free" (burned out on reading all the books on men/women relationships for now), and take one of my kids out on a one-on-one activity each week to give them a chance to talk. My kids are starting to be at the age where they are developing the "what is normal" outlook on life, and want to ensure they have a healthy outlook on life and relationships.

One thing that might help is if you and your wife either have a Bible study or find a Bible study on Song of Solomon.  There is no question of the role of sex in marriage, and the language in that book can be lush at times.