Family Forum

Re: Help!

pooh girl — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:49:52 GMT

JaneFW:
Wow. It's a while since I've been here.

H.I. I did finally confront him. I can't remember without re-reading this thread where I had got to, but after I had managed to run off the ex-g/f who was the girl he wanted to marry in HS - and you don't want to know how I did that because it was probably illegal on some level - he then started chatting to another ex-g/f. By then I was exhausted. It was too much to be checking his FB and checking his email, and trying to delete things and block things. I was about to go crazy. In the meantime, we went to counseling for our first session but I bottled out of opening up about this whole thing. The first time anyway. After I saw the next (which was the third) ex-g/f showing up, I finally got tough and sat down and told him that I had seen all of these women's names on his searches and I knew he was talking to them, and I wasn't happy about any of the private contact. As might be expected, he argued that he wasn't doing anything wrong, and he was just talking, and yet again, stated that my lack of trust was the problem. After talking for quite some time, he decided that he would close his FB account, and he went straight away and did so. He also said that he wanted to talk to the counselor about it, which was a huge relief, because I hadn't wanted to propose that. I guess I'm a wuss and didn't know it!

So, we had our counseling session on Tuesday and I told the counselor what had been going on, and to my huge relief, he got straight to the heart of the matter and told my h that it was a wise decision to close his FB account. He told my h that contacting these women in private was dangerous, and that he shouldn't be doing it, and that he understood why I would be upset about that. My h was taken aback, I think. He tried to plead that he had always gotten on with women better than men - yeah, I had noticed that! - and he just wanted to chat .. but the counselor wasn't having any of it.

Part of me wanted badly, when we had left, to say "did you hear what G said, so you know that I'm right?" but I knew that the last thing I needed to do was to start going over it again. So I left it alone. Thank God I know to keep my mouth shout *some* of the time. He has stayed away from FB since. Unfortunately it's only too easy to re-open your FB account - you just put in your log in and password and it's up and running again! I'm hoping and praying he doesn't do that.

I have made some changes in the last few weeks and my h has seen that in me. This has been something of a wake-up call for me too. It's not that any changes in me can change who he is - unfortunately I think this is an area where my h is always going to be weak - but at least I can be the *best* that I can be, according to what God calls me to be, which is to be a godly wife and mother.

I'm glad all the private talks came out in the open and it was addressed with the counselor.

You are doing good Jane :)considering and sounds like you may have a good counselor.

Re: Help!

pooh girl — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:45:50 GMT

JaneFW:
Oh, and btw, my IL's decided to move to Fort Worth instead of Abilene. Usually, my FIL's decisions are the most annoying and frustrating decisions ever, but on this, I feel like I could hug him senseless, lol.

That's good news. One less thing to be concern about.

Re: Help!

JaneFW — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:39:12 GMT

Oh, and btw, my IL's decided to move to Fort Worth instead of Abilene. Usually, my FIL's decisions are the most annoying and frustrating decisions ever, but on this, I feel like I could hug him senseless, lol.

Re: Help!

JaneFW — Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:38:07 GMT

Wow. It's a while since I've been here.

H.I. I did finally confront him. I can't remember without re-reading this thread where I had got to, but after I had managed to run off the ex-g/f who was the girl he wanted to marry in HS - and you don't want to know how I did that because it was probably illegal on some level - he then started chatting to another ex-g/f. By then I was exhausted. It was too much to be checking his FB and checking his email, and trying to delete things and block things. I was about to go crazy. In the meantime, we went to counseling for our first session but I bottled out of opening up about this whole thing. The first time anyway. After I saw the next (which was the third) ex-g/f showing up, I finally got tough and sat down and told him that I had seen all of these women's names on his searches and I knew he was talking to them, and I wasn't happy about any of the private contact. As might be expected, he argued that he wasn't doing anything wrong, and he was just talking, and yet again, stated that my lack of trust was the problem. After talking for quite some time, he decided that he would close his FB account, and he went straight away and did so. He also said that he wanted to talk to the counselor about it, which was a huge relief, because I hadn't wanted to propose that. I guess I'm a wuss and didn't know it!

So, we had our counseling session on Tuesday and I told the counselor what had been going on, and to my huge relief, he got straight to the heart of the matter and told my h that it was a wise decision to close his FB account. He told my h that contacting these women in private was dangerous, and that he shouldn't be doing it, and that he understood why I would be upset about that. My h was taken aback, I think. He tried to plead that he had always gotten on with women better than men - yeah, I had noticed that! - and he just wanted to chat .. but the counselor wasn't having any of it.

Part of me wanted badly, when we had left, to say "did you hear what G said, so you know that I'm right?" but I knew that the last thing I needed to do was to start going over it again. So I left it alone. Thank God I know to keep my mouth shout *some* of the time. He has stayed away from FB since. Unfortunately it's only too easy to re-open your FB account - you just put in your log in and password and it's up and running again! I'm hoping and praying he doesn't do that.

I have made some changes in the last few weeks and my h has seen that in me. This has been something of a wake-up call for me too. It's not that any changes in me can change who he is - unfortunately I think this is an area where my h is always going to be weak - but at least I can be the *best* that I can be, according to what God calls me to be, which is to be a godly wife and mother.

Re: Help!

Hot Ice — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 23:23:47 GMT

To confront your husband will bring some consequences for him and for you, too.

To really confront this, you'll have to be willing to charge right in, believing that God's going to handle the consequences.

Be sure as to what you hear God saying from the Word, about how, when, where to charge in and confront it.

But by all means, Jane, I hope you get in there and do it. Right away, since the enemy is using all of the "meantime" to fill your ehad up with a bunch of garbage, and drain you, and waste you.....

Re: Help!

chaz345 — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 17:26:49 GMT

JaneFW:
Dallas it's okay, sweetie. I didn't take it that Chaz was trying to excuse my h's behavior.

But I do have a question!

What I see in my h's behavior is utter confusion and - I have to say it - hypocrisy. One the one hand he sets himself up as a crusader against sleaze! He posted on FB asking whether anyone knew of a homepage where his 12 year old son wouldn't be exposed to ads showing scantily clad women, and was very "angry" about it, and yet he's writing those messages to his old g/f, with whom he was "the hot item" asking her whether she has more photos of the girls weekend, and whether she has photos of a mutual friend who has tattoos on her butt and chest - and he has looked at the photos that are posted (women are dressed in shorts/bikini tops, that kind of thing), time and time and time again. So, it's not appropriate for a 12yo, but okay for him? When I showed him recently what the same 12yo had deliberately searched for online, some of it full frontal nudes, the conversation he had with that child seemed to center on age. "You're only 12" etc. Does that mean when he's 17 it's okay? I didn't criticize him, because it's a touchy area, and I don't want him to think that I am supervising the talks he has with the boys, or don't trust him to do it right, but I did say that the focus on his age wasn't the main thing going on here!

Okay, so crusader/ogler (is that even a word?) is one conflict.

Then he's talking about having these lunches/drinks, with no mention of husbands - to them - but telling me that husbands would be present, and insisting that because they are married and he is married it's not a big deal. I had to point out that his ex-wife was married when she had her affairs, for goodness sake. I don't see how he thinks "being married" is a magic talisman. I mean, who does he thinks are having extra marital affairs if not married people? Duh. (I keep the "duh" to myself.)

Then he's looking up a new wedding band for me (I had to have mine cut off last week when I hurt my fingers and it was lose the band or lose the finger!) and talking about where we will take a trip for our 10th anniversary in November -- yet this stuff is ongoing with these other girls, and the photos of the ex g/f is accessed time after time after time .. and at the same time he's posting on his FB homepage about The Man Code and Christianity and telling people about his "great wife" and how she's his "best friend." Seriously - does anyone lie to their best friend like this?

Also, his darn parents have now decided to move back to the Abilene area - great timing, huh? - and he's already volunteered - before a house has even been found! - to help them move in. Yeah, I'll be there too, no kidding. It will be almost funny to see him try to get out of taking me along.

I don't get it. I don't get where he can be such a hypocrite and liar and not know that he's being a hypocrite and liar.

If this is "compartmentalization" I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad that I'm a woman and I don't have it. If I lived like he did, I would be losing my mind trying to keep up with the different deceits, and trying to figure out who I am.

I find it hard to believe that this person loves me.

The good news is that the nurse at the clinic we attend called me last night so say she had faxed over the papers to the counselling office, so I should get a call today to set up an appointment. I am going to try to get us in for next week. I don't know how to even approach this with a counselor. I mean, do I launch straight in?

Trust me, I know I am in need of counseling too: it's not just about "him". I'm probably hell to live with at different times and on different levels.

Thank you for saying that Chaz about seeing me with a happy marriage. I truly believe that can happen - and that we can be an awesome witness for God one day. I really, really hope so and pray so, because to go through whatever remaining years are allotted to me always having to worry about his interactions with women, and be hurt by them, sounds like absolute misery to me. And for him to have this compulsion and to be hurt spiritually by it, and for our boys to absorb it at some level - ugh. It's not the best for any of us.

That confusion you have over his contradictory behavior is precisely an example of compartmentalization. It's not exclusively a male thing, although men tend to do it(not necessarily destructively) more than women. The ability for some men to be completely forcefully in charge at work but then as soft and sensitive as his wife needs at home is an example of "good" compartmentalizing.

Most addicts(not saying that his problem is addiction, just putting it in terms you may understand better) compartmentalize to a degree to. They figure that their getting drunk, or high or whatever at one time, doesn't affect them at other times.

But in terms of this specific issue he's completely separating what he does in looking at or interacting with other women from the rest of his life. Even though you and I (and probably burried somewhere deep inside even he) know that what one does anytime affects their entire life/world, he's built walls between them in his mind. The thing for you to cling to is that there is a part of him that is showing you love. Of course I don't expect that to make it all better, and I don't expect you to just ignore the other crud. I'm just saying that the man and husband you want does exist in him. Just need to find a way to "prune" the other crud off.

Like I sort of said before, the best and most effective way to do that is to focus on what positive is there, and emphasize it and even make a big deal about it sometimes. Common sense would tell us that doing that would make him think that everything's fine but in reality it's far more common for it to cause hime to want to live up to that even more. No don;t ignore or minimize the negative, just don't live in it.

Appologies if any of that started to sound like I was teeling you what you should or must do. Like I siad before, take what you want and leave the rest. My only goal is to hopefully give you a little glimpse into how his brain may be working and to offer some suggestions as to possible things you can do to positively impact the situation.

Re: Help!

dallasapple — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:50:44 GMT

" I don't know how to even approach this with a counselor. I mean, do I launch straight in? "

Jane you dont have to use my words..But something like this..

Right now Im very unhappy with my husbands involvement with other women.And I've been unhappy for a while about it.Its been going on for years and Im weary..its consuming too much of my thought life..Im frustrated and I feel hopeless about how to cope with it.Here is a bit of history(then explain about his background with it)..and here is to date the most recent events ..(have those examples and dates(rough dates) written down.

Love

Dallas

Re: Help!

dallasapple — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:41:59 GMT

P.S...

Write this stuff down Jane.Not like a speech.But just specific points of concerns with specific incidences.

Believe it or not..as much as you think about this and go over in your mind...you would be surprised that once you get the spot light in front of a counselor you can get really confused and strat drawing blanks.

Also be ready to state to the counselor what it is you are hoping they can do for you.IOW what you expect out of counseling.

Love

Dallas

Re: Help!

dallasapple — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:34:41 GMT

"The good news is that the nurse at the clinic we attend called me last night so say she had faxed over the papers to the counselling office, so I should get a call today to set up an appointment. I am going to try to get us in for next week. I don't know how to even approach this with a counselor. I mean, do I launch straight in? "

Hey..I would launch straight in.This issue is whats is weighing heavy on your mind and I wouldnt waste time.You can get around to everything else eventually.But I think whats drving you into counseling is exactly what you should state you are there for.

The counselor will even ask you flat out.."what brings you here".

Love

Dallas

Re: Help!

JaneFW — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:52:54 GMT

Dallas it's okay, sweetie. I didn't take it that Chaz was trying to excuse my h's behavior.

But I do have a question!

What I see in my h's behavior is utter confusion and - I have to say it - hypocrisy. One the one hand he sets himself up as a crusader against sleaze! He posted on FB asking whether anyone knew of a homepage where his 12 year old son wouldn't be exposed to ads showing scantily clad women, and was very "angry" about it, and yet he's writing those messages to his old g/f, with whom he was "the hot item" asking her whether she has more photos of the girls weekend, and whether she has photos of a mutual friend who has tattoos on her butt and chest - and he has looked at the photos that are posted (women are dressed in shorts/bikini tops, that kind of thing), time and time and time again. So, it's not appropriate for a 12yo, but okay for him? When I showed him recently what the same 12yo had deliberately searched for online, some of it full frontal nudes, the conversation he had with that child seemed to center on age. "You're only 12" etc. Does that mean when he's 17 it's okay? I didn't criticize him, because it's a touchy area, and I don't want him to think that I am supervising the talks he has with the boys, or don't trust him to do it right, but I did say that the focus on his age wasn't the main thing going on here!

Okay, so crusader/ogler (is that even a word?) is one conflict.

Then he's talking about having these lunches/drinks, with no mention of husbands - to them - but telling me that husbands would be present, and insisting that because they are married and he is married it's not a big deal. I had to point out that his ex-wife was married when she had her affairs, for goodness sake. I don't see how he thinks "being married" is a magic talisman. I mean, who does he thinks are having extra marital affairs if not married people? Duh. (I keep the "duh" to myself.)

Then he's looking up a new wedding band for me (I had to have mine cut off last week when I hurt my fingers and it was lose the band or lose the finger!) and talking about where we will take a trip for our 10th anniversary in November -- yet this stuff is ongoing with these other girls, and the photos of the ex g/f is accessed time after time after time .. and at the same time he's posting on his FB homepage about The Man Code and Christianity and telling people about his "great wife" and how she's his "best friend." Seriously - does anyone lie to their best friend like this?

Also, his darn parents have now decided to move back to the Abilene area - great timing, huh? - and he's already volunteered - before a house has even been found! - to help them move in. Yeah, I'll be there too, no kidding. It will be almost funny to see him try to get out of taking me along.

I don't get it. I don't get where he can be such a hypocrite and liar and not know that he's being a hypocrite and liar.

If this is "compartmentalization" I'm sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo glad that I'm a woman and I don't have it. If I lived like he did, I would be losing my mind trying to keep up with the different deceits, and trying to figure out who I am.

I find it hard to believe that this person loves me.

The good news is that the nurse at the clinic we attend called me last night so say she had faxed over the papers to the counselling office, so I should get a call today to set up an appointment. I am going to try to get us in for next week. I don't know how to even approach this with a counselor. I mean, do I launch straight in?

Trust me, I know I am in need of counseling too: it's not just about "him". I'm probably hell to live with at different times and on different levels.

Thank you for saying that Chaz about seeing me with a happy marriage. I truly believe that can happen - and that we can be an awesome witness for God one day. I really, really hope so and pray so, because to go through whatever remaining years are allotted to me always having to worry about his interactions with women, and be hurt by them, sounds like absolute misery to me. And for him to have this compulsion and to be hurt spiritually by it, and for our boys to absorb it at some level - ugh. It's not the best for any of us.

Re: Help!

chaz345 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:33:46 GMT

dallasapple:
chaz345:
JaneFW:
Why does it have to be so darn hard? Marriage, that is.

Well it can be hard enough when both people are trying to do their best so I can see where it seems dang near impossible for you right now. You can(no you WILL) do this with God's help.

Please don't hear this as excuse making for him but I feel that you need to hear that his actions do not mean that he doesn't care about you or doesn't love you even though that's what they feel like to you. It makes no sense at all to you but I'm pretty sure that to him his actions in this area are completely separate from how he feels about you. That's the curse of being able to compartmentalize like men can tend to do and people in habitual sin are masters at. They (I when I was there) can sit there an pretend that what I do in one area has no effect on other areas.

Taking advantage of someone is taking advantage of someone.You can put it in a "compartment" all you want.Thats nothing but an excuse regardless of you saying it isnt.

Adn besides that..If that is the way it is and its just a difference..how long is the one paying supposed to sit there and "understand" ?

And I find it AMAZING that you say "his actions dont mean he doesnt love or care about you"..Even though thats how she "feels"based on his actions.

What you are saying..Is love isnt an "action word".Love is a "feeling" he has toward her.His actions get scape goated to a compartment that really doesnt have any meaning about how he realy feels about her..

Sounds like its ALL about HIS feelings to me.And she should squash hers because he has "compartments".

Never mind.

Love

Dallas

So far from what I meant that that explanation is probably pointless but here it goes.

When I say I'm not making excuses for him, I'M NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM. Why is it soooo hard to beleive me when I make a very simple statement like that.

Your saying that I'm making excuses when I've said that isn't what I'm doing is, in effect calling me a liar. Please don't do that anymore.

As for how long the one "paying" has to sit there and understand, what is the limit of Jesus forgiveness of us? How long does God tolerate our sin before he gives up? Do you think our sin hurts God any less than Jane's husband's hurts her?

But none of that matters since you've already decided that I'm on his side. The only side I'm on is on the side of seeing Jane with a happy marriage and my suggestions to her are what I have to offer toward that end. Let me ask you this. How would me sitting here telling her how right she is and what an inconsiderate uncaring lousy jerk, he is do anything to help the marriage? Even though it's a relatively accurate statement, her thinking that way and acting accordingly will not help the marriage one little bit. So instead I offer the hard steps thay she'll need to take. And you'l notice that I specifically said that it was a lot easier for me to sit her and suggest them that it will be for her to do them.

Re: Help!

dallasapple — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:50:54 GMT

chaz345:
JaneFW:
Why does it have to be so darn hard? Marriage, that is.

Well it can be hard enough when both people are trying to do their best so I can see where it seems dang near impossible for you right now. You can(no you WILL) do this with God's help.

Please don't hear this as excuse making for him but I feel that you need to hear that his actions do not mean that he doesn't care about you or doesn't love you even though that's what they feel like to you. It makes no sense at all to you but I'm pretty sure that to him his actions in this area are completely separate from how he feels about you. That's the curse of being able to compartmentalize like men can tend to do and people in habitual sin are masters at. They (I when I was there) can sit there an pretend that what I do in one area has no effect on other areas.

Taking advantage of someone is taking advantage of someone.You can put it in a "compartment" all you want.Thats nothing but an excuse regardless of you saying it isnt.

Adn besides that..If that is the way it is and its just a difference..how long is the one paying supposed to sit there and "understand" ?

And I find it AMAZING that you say "his actions dont mean he doesnt love or care about you"..Even though thats how she "feels"based on his actions.

What you are saying..Is love isnt an "action word".Love is a "feeling" he has toward her.His actions get scape goated to a compartment that really doesnt have any meaning about how he realy feels about her..

Sounds like its ALL about HIS feelings to me.And she should squash hers because he has "compartments".

Never mind.

Love

Dallas

Re: Help!

chaz345 — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 21:01:13 GMT

JaneFW:
Why does it have to be so darn hard? Marriage, that is.

Well it can be hard enough when both people are trying to do their best so I can see where it seems dang near impossible for you right now. You can(no you WILL) do this with God's help.

Please don't hear this as excuse making for him but I feel that you need to hear that his actions do not mean that he doesn't care about you or doesn't love you even though that's what they feel like to you. It makes no sense at all to you but I'm pretty sure that to him his actions in this area are completely separate from how he feels about you. That's the curse of being able to compartmentalize like men can tend to do and people in habitual sin are masters at. They (I when I was there) can sit there an pretend that what I do in one area has no effect on other areas.

Re: Help!

JaneFW — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:07:18 GMT

I have decided to hold off for now. I had an email ready, but after cooling down some during the day, instead I did what I've been urged to do for at least 2 years now and got the ball rolling with a counseling service. This service takes our insurance, so I have faxed the paperwork to get that in line, and then I hope to be able to make an appointment next week or the week after. I feel that I will be more "supported" once we can get regular counseling underway, and I can pour this all out to a counselor and get his (it is a man) advice on whether I should confront this issue, or whether the counselor will handle it better. Okay, I know the counselor isn't going to say "I hear you've been messaging these women and it's gotta stop, bub" but maybe my h will feel more inclined to be honest with this other man, and take his advice on how he should be dealing with other women.

In the meantime, however, I am going to be vigilant and will be praying for my h. I almost started the Love Dare this morning, but I ended up getting so angry that I couldn't have done it with the right heart. I will do it but I want to vent first that *I* have been the one reading the marriage books, trying to put the advice into place, praying for him, reading the Stormie Omartian book and praying even more for him, forgiving him, putting up with this crap, and now organizing counseling. It's *always* me trying to make things better. In response, he ogles other women and tries to meet them for "drinks."

^$#@$^&*())()&%$#$#

Okay, I had to have that vent. That's the entirely flesh-oriented me speaking. So, I have to get that one said, and then turn my hand back to the task, and shut up about everything I do for him, and how little he does for me. I know that's not how this marriage will succeed.

Why does it have to be so darn hard? Marriage, that is.

Re: Help!

dallasapple — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:18:31 GMT

JaneFW:
I'm thinking about lovingly confronting him and have an email ready for that purpose. It's an email rather than face-to-face because I won't see him now until tomorrow when I get home from work, due to his school commitments. I don't want to wait that long. I do better with email anyway because in person I tend to get confused, and emotional, and he talks over me and starts accusing me of not trusting him, and it turns into a mess. This way, I get to just say it.

I understand about e-mailing.If its something more complicated..I think e-mailing is a great way to get your thoughts across with a clear head and no interuptions.Then you can discuss the e-mail.Or he can send you one back.

Some people would critisize that.But I dont see it as any different than writing a letter to someone.

Love

Dallas