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I have recently finish a bible college class on the Book of Revelation.  During the study and the discussion of Babylon the Lord shows me how pervasive pagan idolatry is and how permissive the Christian community is about it.  As today is Halloween and it is open season on Christmas, I am troubled by the coming holidays.

God's prohibition against idols has not changed,  Christmas simply a combination of pagan holidays, most of them involving sun worship (such as Roman Saturnalia) wrapped up into one, with Jesus' birthday thrown on top.  And where is the bible are we directed or commanded to celebrate His birthday? Nowhere.

Don't bother calling me a legalist, unless you are blameless yourself.

No brother I won't call you a legalist. Many of us have rangled over the issues of Christian holiday over the years, and your not the first. I fully understand the impulse to recoil from any participation in the circus that is now referred to as Christmas. I know of many families who do not participate what soever. My wife and I have discussed this with many people who are in turmoil regarding the issue. I do have the following questions for those who choose not to participate because of what the world, and the evil one in particular have done to the Christian Holidays to pervert them. 1 The greatest gift ever given to mankind is the giving of the Lord Jesus Christ to us as one who would take our sins upon Himself and die in our place, why would we not celebrate that? I know that The Lord Jesus was probably not born on December 25, and that this date is also shared with many other practices and religious ceremonies, but is that really surprising.  All through history satan has worked hard to pervert, defame, degrade and if possible make a counterfeit for every good thing that God has created or done, that's the devils job. When we choose not to hold for the truth, choose not to shed the light of the Gospel into the darkness of deception and ignorance then all of creation will remain in darkness. He has make us (through the Lord Jesus Christ) to be Salt and Light, His light. 

2 All through the Old Testement the Lord instructed the Children of Israel to hold feasts to remember what the Lord God had done for them. This served as to inspire hope in the Lord's people, He has done great things for them, and will continue to do so until His purpose is accomplised.  It gives us His Church great comfort and hope when we remember His great gift to us, the gift of His Son The Lord Jesus Christ. Because of this we are reminded of His faithfulness to accomplish His word, and if He was faithful before, He will be again. We can see this principle in the act of Communion. In the coming together and drinking of the wine (representing His blood) and the eating of the bread (representing His broken body for us) we are reminded of His great love for us, of Him fulfilling His word, promise and covanent to us.

I certainly appreciate your desire to shun the evil, and embrace the good. My suggestion is that you can effectively do so even while celebrating His birth. May the Lord Himself lead you in His paths of righteousness for His Name Sake.

patrickmcb:

I have recently finish a bible college class on the Book of Revelation.  During the study and the discussion of Babylon the Lord shows me how pervasive pagan idolatry is and how permissive the Christian community is about it.  As today is Halloween and it is open season on Christmas, I am troubled by the coming holidays.

God's prohibition against idols has not changed,  Christmas simply a combination of pagan holidays, most of them involving sun worship (such as Roman Saturnalia) wrapped up into one, with Jesus' birthday thrown on top.  And where is the bible are we directed or commanded to celebrate His birthday? Nowhere.

Is this one class the only source you have for your opinions and conclusions?  That isn't a backdoor judgement, just a question.  I'm curious if you've researched what anyone, especially well-respected theologians and ministries, say about the Book of Revelation, and Christian holidays and celebrations.

patrickmcb:

Don't bother calling me a legalist, unless you are blameless yourself.

I fail to see what my blamelessness or lack thereof has to do with whether or not you are a "legalist". 

If [my] being blameless was prerequisite to challenging [your] conclusion, then none of us here could ever challenge another on anything, ever.  Because none of us are blameless.

If no one here can suggest your opinions are legalistic or just plain wrong because we aren't blameless, how is it you feel justified making your statements given that you are not blameless?

What something *is*, or is not, is a matter of your heart.  One could assert that accepting Christ and trying to be obedient to God's Word is essentially a *daily* celebration of :Christ's birth, and His life, and His resurrection.

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Love God; Love people.

Seek first to understand before you seek to be understood.

Step 1: Toast the Poptart.

Patrick,

I for one am curious to hear you elaborate on your position.  It seems that you're saying one or both of the following: that Christians must only celebrate holidays specifically mentioned in the Bible; and that celebrations of pagan origin cannot be "repurposed" into godly holidays even when the Christians celebrating them are unaware or apathetic to their pagan origins.  Could you please clarify what you believe along those points?

I also want to interject the fact that God himself borrowed from pagan traditions to form his covenants.  The notion of a temple with multiple courts, a "holy of holies," and a horned altar was a common practice in pagan religion long before God's temple.  The seven-day creation account also appears in pagan mythology.  Even the Ten Commandments has its origins in pagan treaty law code.  God borrowed from familiar imagery and cultural devices so that his people would understand.

patrickmcb:

I have recently finish a bible college class on the Book of Revelation.  During the study and the discussion of Babylon the Lord shows me how pervasive pagan idolatry is and how permissive the Christian community is about it.  As today is Halloween and it is open season on Christmas, I am troubled by the coming holidays.

God's prohibition against idols has not changed,  Christmas simply a combination of pagan holidays, most of them involving sun worship (such as Roman Saturnalia) wrapped up into one, with Jesus' birthday thrown on top.  And where is the bible are we directed or commanded to celebrate His birthday? Nowhere.

Don't bother calling me a legalist, unless you are blameless yourself.

OK, so let me turn your logic on you.  Since scripture says you yourself are not blameless, how can you bring this judgment here, but tell others not to judge you?

So I encourage you to pick one, either drop your judgmental attitude and carry on a discussion, or choose to remain judgmental and prepare to be judged by your own standard.

It's ironic that you attempt to convict folks, folks you've never met for something you suppose they do, without any knowledge about what is on-going in their hearts during a holiday celebration, but then warn folks about calling you a legalist, essentially saying if they are not blameless, they cannot judge.

If I understand correctly, you are not a legalist, but a hypocrite.

I complied with your stated wish.

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It is illogical to argue logic with someone unwilling to examine more than his/her feelings on a matter.