A Christian organization helping couples build healthier marriages and families.
boatmen:What would work for me is what I've repeatedly said, "IF the church were to actually DO what it claims to believe then govt welfare programs wouldn't be needed".
While I think churches miss the mark on everyday type of help, I actually think the churches do a fairly good job when it comes to disasters. I've witnessed first hand how local churches make a bigger difference after catastrophes than the huge non-profits like the Red Cross or any government agencies.
boatmen: Who will pay my gas bill? Certainly the church isn't going to do it. The local Christian isn't going to do it, he's to busy paying for his new car. When I asked you this the first time you had no answer.... so did ya come up with one yet that doesn't involve me starving to death while I wait?
Who will pay my gas bill? Certainly the church isn't going to do it. The local Christian isn't going to do it, he's to busy paying for his new car. When I asked you this the first time you had no answer.... so did ya come up with one yet that doesn't involve me starving to death while I wait?
I still can't figure out why you think that someone other than yourself should be paying your gas bill and why in heaven's name would you starve to death while waiting on help? We've had some tough times but I never thought I was going to starve to death without the governments help! I KNOW your local food bank will help and I bet your church would too, if you asked.
You have also mentioned that people here are talking about ending ALL social programs. Who has said that? I think we are all in agreement that they are okay when used and operated correctly, but I still think private charities can do a better job than the red tape government!
SeekingHisPeace: boatmen:What would work for me is what I've repeatedly said, "IF the church were to actually DO what it claims to believe then govt welfare programs wouldn't be needed". While I think churches miss the mark on everyday type of help, I actually think the churches do a fairly good job when it comes to disasters. I've witnessed first hand how local churches make a bigger difference after catastrophes than the huge non-profits like the Red Cross or any government agencies.
I would agree that a lot of churchs do help quite a bit when some disaster occurs. Unfortunately they so miss the mark when it comes to everyday kinda things. When we were in WV on a mission trip we had several churchs who wanted to contribute during Christmas so they could give toys to children. The rest of the year we never heard from them.
reagtay: boatmen: Who will pay my gas bill? Certainly the church isn't going to do it. The local Christian isn't going to do it, he's to busy paying for his new car. When I asked you this the first time you had no answer.... so did ya come up with one yet that doesn't involve me starving to death while I wait? I still can't figure out why you think that someone other than yourself should be paying your gas bill and why in heaven's name would you starve to death while waiting on help? We've had some tough times but I never thought I was going to starve to death without the governments help! I KNOW your local food bank will help and I bet your church would too, if you asked. You have also mentioned that people here are talking about ending ALL social programs. Who has said that? I think we are all in agreement that they are okay when used and operated correctly, but I still think private charities can do a better job than the red tape government!
You do realize I'm paralyzed and permanently in a wheelchair? You do realize I have gentamycin posioning and have a terrible time with even staying in my wheelchair? You do realize I've been placed on no bending, lifting or twisting restrictions from my doctors? If someone doesn't help me I have no way of supporting myself or my family. Well, no that's not quite accurate. I could work for a short time and then die. Would that be better ya think?
I'm glad you are able to work. I'm glad that your husband is able to be gainfully employed. It's not only physically tough on me not working, but it takes a tremendous toll on me emotionally not to be able to support my family.
And I HAVE asked the church for help. I've asked numerous churchs numerous times and the result is always the same. No. Perhaps if I strapped my knees together and somehow braced myself so I could actually stay on my knees while I begged for help... the answer might be different? Maybe I should just crawl?
Them rotten dogs! How dare they steal other peoples money to pay for such frivolous things!
Why can't they just crawl into church and beg for help like normal people?
Dear Boatmen,
My prayers are with you.
But let me ask you this: Do You help the poor and the needy? You are a Christian, right? So, the call to help the poor and the needy applies to you as well, right? Or is there a “Boatmen” exception in the Bible? Surely there are millions of people in this world who have less than you do.
And are you saying that you are willing to overlook the issues of the sanctity of human life for a promise by a presidential candidate not to raise your taxes, which, form what it sounds like, you don’t have to pay anyway? That’s what it boils down to, Boatmen. No one is saying that the government will take your benefits away if you vote pro-life. Would you be willing to kill for a piece of bread?
God bless
divorce in church:Boat, Im sorry about your situation. You are exactly the need that needs to be met.....and no one disagrees. there are no republicans out there wanting to pass by.Can you share what experience you had where you felt short changed? What help did you apply for and get denied? What church turned their back? Something had to happen or you would be so bitter that a person has a new car.If Dems would stop thinking that more money and bigger govt was the answer....there would be TONS more money for those who need it....like you.
I don't know that I can remember all the different times I've had some financial problems and approached the local church regarding some type of assistance. We also approached several different churchs when we were in WV on a mission trip regarding assistance. Being a para isn't so bad once you get used to it. There are however some things that really tend to bog a feller down on occasion. One of them is the extreme medical expenses I encounter. Last year I spent $48K in one day. This year alone I've probably spent close to that. I tend to have recurring health problems and it's getting more and more expensive. For the last 10+ years we've gone without any medical insurance on my family. It's risky, but it's a choice between coverage or keeping a roof over our heads. And God has been very merciful in keeping my family's health in good shape. Late last year we decided that after my son graduated from homeschool we'd send him to a YWAM DTS. The total cost has been about $10K. In order to make that happen I've had to ignore my doctors advice and took a part time job at the local Home Depot. It helps with the expenses a little and we now have medical coverage. But it's taking a toll on my health. I'm gonna try and stick it out till next summer some time cause I need a new wheelchair and they cost about $2K. I'm hoping to hang in at HD long enough to be able to have the insurance at least pick up some of that cost. The chair I'm currently using individuals that we know helped with the cost. All these things the local church knew/knows about... and in none of the cases have they been willing to help. We spent over a year in WV and while we were there we made mention of many many different cases where we could use financial assistance to help others in the area. Basic things like food, clothing, shelter needs, heating assistance. And true to what I've come to see, the local church was only willing to help during the Christmas season and only to buy toys for children. Like I've said before I really don't begrudge anyone having a new car. What I don't understand is how a Christian can claim to love God and others, believe the Bible and stake their life on that belief and yet ignore the basic needs of others? Something in there is a lie - either we do or we don't and actions sometimes speak louder than words.
That's a very quick & basic overview of what's I've experienced. And it absolutely drives me nuts! Obedience is one of my favorite subjects.
BUT... and this is the part that will probably twist yer brain stem some and I spologize for that. For me it's not about Republicans and/or Democrats. Personally I think the entire Federal Welfare Program should be eliminated. It's simply unconstitutional and like the war in Iraq we can't afford it. While I think the feds can and should step in on occasion, routine assistance to individuals or communities should be extremely rare. Rare like changing the constitution kinda rarity. So I don't totally disagree with you on welfare. Where we disagree is gonna be in how we go about phasing out such programs. To simply curtail some and not all will only serve to allow them to grow back. It doesn't solve the unconstituional violation and we can't afford even a reduction. That, in my mind, simply won't work. ALL of them need to be eliminated. And the sooner the better. In my mind it's not a political problem at all - it's a CHRISTIAN problem. And CHRISTIANS need to solve it. That's why I keep saying that IF churchs would step up and do what they say they believe, govt welfare as we know it now - would simply cease to exist. Wouldn't that just be grand! To advocate for the ending or even modification of the current welfare system without some type of replacement will appear hardhearted. The replacement simply MUST come from the church.
boatmen: reagtay: boatmen: Who will pay my gas bill? Certainly the church isn't going to do it. The local Christian isn't going to do it, he's to busy paying for his new car. When I asked you this the first time you had no answer.... so did ya come up with one yet that doesn't involve me starving to death while I wait? I still can't figure out why you think that someone other than yourself should be paying your gas bill and why in heaven's name would you starve to death while waiting on help? We've had some tough times but I never thought I was going to starve to death without the governments help! I KNOW your local food bank will help and I bet your church would too, if you asked. You have also mentioned that people here are talking about ending ALL social programs. Who has said that? I think we are all in agreement that they are okay when used and operated correctly, but I still think private charities can do a better job than the red tape government! You do realize I'm paralyzed and permanently in a wheelchair? You do realize I have gentamycin posioning and have a terrible time with even staying in my wheelchair? You do realize I've been placed on no bending, lifting or twisting restrictions from my doctors? If someone doesn't help me I have no way of supporting myself or my family. Well, no that's not quite accurate. I could work for a short time and then die. Would that be better ya think? I'm glad you are able to work. I'm glad that your husband is able to be gainfully employed. It's not only physically tough on me not working, but it takes a tremendous toll on me emotionally not to be able to support my family. And I HAVE asked the church for help. I've asked numerous churchs numerous times and the result is always the same. No. Perhaps if I strapped my knees together and somehow braced myself so I could actually stay on my knees while I begged for help... the answer might be different? Maybe I should just crawl?
It's obvious she didn't know that boatmen. She never asked you to crawl. Although what you share is a great reminder to us all not to judge one another.
Here is some scripture for all of us to consider:
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
9"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us today our daily bread. 12Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.
25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
BcauseHeLives: boatmen: reagtay: boatmen: Who will pay my gas bill? Certainly the church isn't going to do it. The local Christian isn't going to do it, he's to busy paying for his new car. When I asked you this the first time you had no answer.... so did ya come up with one yet that doesn't involve me starving to death while I wait? I still can't figure out why you think that someone other than yourself should be paying your gas bill and why in heaven's name would you starve to death while waiting on help? We've had some tough times but I never thought I was going to starve to death without the governments help! I KNOW your local food bank will help and I bet your church would too, if you asked. You have also mentioned that people here are talking about ending ALL social programs. Who has said that? I think we are all in agreement that they are okay when used and operated correctly, but I still think private charities can do a better job than the red tape government! You do realize I'm paralyzed and permanently in a wheelchair? You do realize I have gentamycin posioning and have a terrible time with even staying in my wheelchair? You do realize I've been placed on no bending, lifting or twisting restrictions from my doctors? If someone doesn't help me I have no way of supporting myself or my family. Well, no that's not quite accurate. I could work for a short time and then die. Would that be better ya think? I'm glad you are able to work. I'm glad that your husband is able to be gainfully employed. It's not only physically tough on me not working, but it takes a tremendous toll on me emotionally not to be able to support my family. And I HAVE asked the church for help. I've asked numerous churchs numerous times and the result is always the same. No. Perhaps if I strapped my knees together and somehow braced myself so I could actually stay on my knees while I begged for help... the answer might be different? Maybe I should just crawl? It's obvious she didn't know that boatmen. She never asked you to crawl. Although what you share is a great reminder to us all not to judge one another. Here is some scripture for all of us to consider: Matthew 6 Giving to the Needy 1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. 2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Prayer 5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us today our daily bread. 12Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. Fasting 16"When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 17But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18so that it will not be obvious to men that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Treasures in Heaven 19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. 22"The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money. Do Not Worry 25"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]? 28"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
StillHopeful123: Dear Boatmen, My prayers are with you. But let me ask you this: Do You help the poor and the needy? You are a Christian, right? So, the call to help the poor and the needy applies to you as well, right? Or is there a “Boatmen” exception in the Bible? Surely there are millions of people in this world who have less than you do.
First let me apologize for not responding sooner. I simply missed your post and hadn't realized you posted some questions for me until just a moment ago.
Yes, we do help the poor and needy. I've already spoken about going to WV for over a year on a mission trip. We lived and worked in one of the top 10 poorest counties in the USA. And by God's grace we continue to help those in need where we are living now(not one of the top 10 financially but we do seem to have a very high rate of divorce for some reason?). And yes I have been accused of being a Christian by others. And yes, the command to help the poor and needy applies to me. Nope, no Boatmen exception. If you noticed there was just recently a very nice lady who posted about a need. While lot's of people viewed her post only 3 other people responded and of the 3, 2 of them suggested seeking help from somewhere else and only 1 offered help. Unfortunately that seems quite typical of what I've experienced from a great deal of the Christian community. I'm convinced there are indeed millions of people who have less than I do and we help there also.
StillHopeful123: And are you saying that you are willing to overlook the issues of the sanctity of human life for a promise by a presidential candidate not to raise your taxes, which, form what it sounds like, you don’t have to pay anyway? That’s what it boils down to, Boatmen. No one is saying that the government will take your benefits away if you vote pro-life. Would you be willing to kill for a piece of bread? God bless
This last part confuses me. I simply don't understand where you are coming up with the choices for me to decide between? I am absolutely commited to never ever having an abortion. I do, however, pay lots of taxes. Some of which I don't mind, some I believe to be excessive and some I believe to be unconstitutional. Are you under the mistaken opinion that I am supportive of Obama? That seems to happen a lot around here.
dic:The scripture here, that hopefully we all were and are well familiar with, regarding giving quietly etc. is often expoited among Christians who chide other Christians about theor giving. here we have someone essentially indicting large swaths of Christians....most specifically those, of all things, with new cars. My response was inappropriate, in that I defended my giving. I should have not done that. But to those inclined to make blanket statements about Christian givers....let me just say, you just dont know what you are talking about.....that statement, you dont know what you are talking about, is true literally, and sort of figuratively. Thats where the judging comes in. Judging those with new cars and generally judging Christians like that with absolutely zero information on any individual is just not right.
Is this how you justify and rationalize ignoring those in need dic? That we're not supposed to talk openly about it? That would be great IF indeed it were actually happening, but it's clear to anyone with even limited vision that it's not. Should we just continue to stick our heads in the sand and not say anything?
Did you notice the "to be seen by them" and the "to be honored by men"?
IF we are not to talk about how God is working in our lives to help others then why was the ACTS of the Apostles written? Isnt't that pretty much the story of what they did and how others responded? Have you not read the Gospel stories of what Christ did and how people praised God?
Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, men will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 2 Cor. 9:13 Perhaps you should correct Paul instead of me?
See dic, it's really not about me or you. It's only always about God and if it's not then your doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason.
No, a true Jew is one whose heart is right with God. And true circumcision is not merely obeying the letter of the law; rather, it is a change of heart produced by God’s Spirit. And a person with a changed heart seeks praise from God, not from people. Ro. 2:29
Will God praise our laziness and hardheartedness?
Here is a part of that scripture that I feel is as important as the rest:
