FamilyLife Forums

daftac:

SeekingHisPeace:

I don't understand what you mean.  

Protect herself?  From whom?  From what?  How?  

What kind of consquences are you implying Jane impose? 

I'm referring to the concept of personal boundaries and why they are important in our lives and marriages as detailed in the book 'Boundaries in Marriage' by Henry Cloud / John Townsend. 

Here are some topical videos on the concept:

http://www.cloudtownsend.com/channels/channelTopical.php?ch=Relationships

They're really quite good.

But what specific consquences are you implying that Jane should invoke upon her husband? 

Healthy boundaries are decisions we make for ourselves, not things we do to punish someone else. 

Thanks Dallas, I got your pm and responded.

Thank you everyone for your thoughts and support and encouragement.  Too much to answer individually or I will be writing 10 pages and I have a lot of pressing work to do.

I did install Eblaster last night.  When my h had to leave for a commitment at school, I checked it and I now have his FB log in.  I checked his in box and out box this morning and he has corresponded with a bunch of women from his high school days.  There's nothing sexual in those right now, but he is mentioning to some that he is visiting the area in a couple of weeks and did they want to meet up for lunch or a coffee.  He is definitely going up there to meet his cousins, because I saw that correspondence too.

I am concerned that to one girl he is saying that she was always his favorite, and he tried to win her back in HS.  It's a jokey conversation, but I just don't like it at all. 

I did ask him last night - before I saw this correspondence - whether the kids and I will be invited to go the next time he heads up to Abilene, and he said he was hoping so, and this time is just to get with the cousins and figure out future family reunions.  I know that there is a lot of "business" they have to sort through because different branches of the family have become estranged, and they are trying to figure out who is going to be a part of this, and who is not.  Their parents have kind of made a mess of the family, one way and another.  Anyway .. nobody wants to hear this.

They are all married - the women, and of course my h, and he states he is married.  In one email he calls me a "rock" and how I have stood by him, but in the one with the "favorite", he doesn't mention me at all, and she doesn't mention her h.  This is what worries me, I guess. 

I am going to ask him *not* to meet up with any of these women while he is up there.  I am going to make it absolutely clear that I want his time apart from me spent with his cousins or their wives, and no HS friends or former g/f's.  Does that sound like too much of a command?  Is it okay for me to say that?  I just think about me doing something like that, and I know that - regardless of what he said at the weeekend - he would absolutely hate it if I went to have coffee or lunch with former b/f's.  Of course, I live too far away from those former b/f's to ever put this to the test, but I know my h only too well!

I am going to get the subject of counseling going again, and maybe this time even make an appointment.  It's just a pain because counselors don't work weekends and we have so many work and school and childcare commitments during the week.  :( 

JaneFW:

I am concerned that to one girl he is saying that she was always his favorite, and he tried to win her back in HS.  It's a jokey conversation, but I just don't like it at all. 

Don't blame you one bit for not liking this.  Especially if there has been very little time for you and he to have fun "jokey" time together...this would really bother me. :(

JaneFW:

I am going to ask him *not* to meet up with any of these women while he is up there.  I am going to make it absolutely clear that I want his time apart from me spent with his cousins or their wives, and no HS friends or former g/f's.  Does that sound like too much of a command?  Is it okay for me to say that? 

I think it is *more* than ok to say that!  I don't think it is a command, but very real concern. 

JaneFW:

  I just think about me doing something like that, and I know that - regardless of what he said at the weeekend - he would absolutely hate it if I went to have coffee or lunch with former b/f's.  Of course, I live too far away from those former b/f's to ever put this to the test, but I know my h only too well!

I think this would be fair to bring up with him too. 

JaneFW:

I am going to get the subject of counseling going again, and maybe this time even make an appointment.  It's just a pain because counselors don't work weekends and we have so many work and school and childcare commitments during the week.  :( 

((Jane)) I will be praying that God work a way in your schedule so that you and Jay can fit counseling in.  I am so sorry you are having to walk through your already crazy hectic days with this fear hanging over your head again.

---

2 Timothy 2:15
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.

JaneFW:

I did install Eblaster last night.  When my h had to leave for a commitment at school, I checked it and I now have his FB log in.  I checked his in box and out box this morning and he has corresponded with a bunch of women from his high school days.  There's nothing sexual in those right now, but he is mentioning to some that he is visiting the area in a couple of weeks and did they want to meet up for lunch or a coffee.  He is definitely going up there to meet his cousins, because I saw that correspondence too.

I am concerned that to one girl he is saying that she was always his favorite, and he tried to win her back in HS.  It's a jokey conversation, but I just don't like it at all. 

I wouldn't either; that's garbage to let the conversation go in that direction.  I know some don't believe that talking to a former bf/gf is O.K., and I tend to get out of the way, so as not to come off as imposing my thoughts as "the standard", but this is different:  the Word warns us in so many ways that stuff often gets started by conversations/thoughts that get as close to the edge as possible, actually inviting more and more--until there we are, in sin and destruction.  It was garbage for him to initiate with those women, as well, asking them if they want to meet for coffee.

JaneFW:

I did ask him last night - before I saw this correspondence - whether the kids and I will be invited to go the next time he heads up to Abilene, and he said he was hoping so, and this time is just to get with the cousins and figure out future family reunions.  I know that there is a lot of "business" they have to sort through because different branches of the family have become estranged, and they are trying to figure out who is going to be a part of this, and who is not.  Their parents have kind of made a mess of the family, one way and another.  Anyway .. nobody wants to hear this.

What I hear out of this is that you are really bothered that he didn't come out and tell you what he was willing to come out and tell the other women---that you are bothered that there is a level of intimacy (in this case, by way of honesty) that should be for husband and wife......and, instead, he gave it to someone else.  That's what I would see from what you've told us.....and it reminds me of what I lived in my marriage.   I didn't like it one bit, either!

JaneFW:

I am going to ask him *not* to meet up with any of these women while he is up there.  I am going to make it absolutely clear that I want his time apart from me spent with his cousins or their wives, and no HS friends or former g/f's.  Does that sound like too much of a command?  Is it okay for me to say that?  I just think about me doing something like that, and I know that - regardless of what he said at the weeekend - he would absolutely hate it if I went to have coffee or lunch with former b/f's.  Of course, I live too far away from those former b/f's to ever put this to the test, but I know my h only too well!

There is no way that simply asking this stuff is, by itself, going to be too much of a command (wouldn't be a command at all).  If you are in prayer, giving your thoughts/attitude/passions/emotions(that's a HUGE one!!) to God, asking Him to take over and let you bow down 100% to Him as you do it, then He will take the consequences of your husband's reaction (and I'm sure he will, from what you've described), and hold you firmly in place, no matter what. 

I, too, hope your husband's heart isn't hardened against Biblical counseling, that when you bring it up,  he doesn't just shut it down.  I will be more faithful to pray with you about that.

Thank you H.I. 

We are most definitely in need of prayer!

PearsandGrapes:

JaneFW:

I am concerned that to one girl he is saying that she was always his favorite, and he tried to win her back in HS.  It's a jokey conversation, but I just don't like it at all. 

Don't blame you one bit for not liking this.  Especially if there has been very little time for you and he to have fun "jokey" time together...this would really bother me. :(

JaneFW:

I am going to ask him *not* to meet up with any of these women while he is up there.  I am going to make it absolutely clear that I want his time apart from me spent with his cousins or their wives, and no HS friends or former g/f's.  Does that sound like too much of a command?  Is it okay for me to say that? 

I think it is *more* than ok to say that!  I don't think it is a command, but very real concern. 

JaneFW:

  I just think about me doing something like that, and I know that - regardless of what he said at the weeekend - he would absolutely hate it if I went to have coffee or lunch with former b/f's.  Of course, I live too far away from those former b/f's to ever put this to the test, but I know my h only too well!

I think this would be fair to bring up with him too. 

JaneFW:

I am going to get the subject of counseling going again, and maybe this time even make an appointment.  It's just a pain because counselors don't work weekends and we have so many work and school and childcare commitments during the week.  :( 

((Jane)) I will be praying that God work a way in your schedule so that you and Jay can fit counseling in.  I am so sorry you are having to walk through your already crazy hectic days with this fear hanging over your head again.

Thank you so much sweetie.  I am working on it ..

JaneFW:

Thank you H.I. 

We are most definitely in need of prayer!

You're most welcome!  I got a little distracted when I was posting to you earlier:  I was meaning to write that if you give all that stuff to God before talking to your husband, you can make sure that your spirit isn't in a state of giving your husband a command.  That will make sure that you won't even have a demanding attitude, let alone the thoughts/words/delivery that will be saying it.  Doesn't mean that your husband won't choose to hear that, but you will have totally done all you can do to show him love while still taking your stand.  It will also make it clear that you aren't just taking a stand for the marriage for selfish (controlling, manipulative, etc.) reasons--but that you are shooting for a godly marriage.   I hope that makes sense.

Hi Jane!

I'm so sorry for what you are going through, as I do recall your husband also had some sort of a porn issue, like mine.

My first reaction to your initial thread was something our counselor said to my husband and me.  He said "IF this behavior, whatever it is, porn, etc., bothers your wife, and hurts her then shouldn't you, cease it?"  It's that plain and simple, I think. On the one hand, every person needs their privacy.  On the other hand, IF in the past, they violated your trust, then they need to establish themselves as being trustworthy.  I think it would not be out of line for you to tell your dh you need his passwords for everything.  That this would help you trust him, and you need this for YOU.  He should comply willingly, I would hope.

"worst case scenario - planning to meet one of these women when he goes out of town, then I will have to confront him, and what will the fallout from that be?  The end of my marriage?  I cannot imagine continuing to live with this guy and trust him if it has gone that far."

As Dallasapple said to me on one of my recent posts, it depends on what you are willing to live with.  Knowing ourselves is key.  Knowing what is comfortable, and what is not. Knowing what we can live with, put up with, and what we can't. Obviously you do not trust his internet activities right now, so tell him openly and honestly.  Make it about YOU, not him.  We can't change anyone.  We can only get in tune with ourselves. That's a huge lesson I've learned from my whole ordeal.  If, the worst should happen, as you mention above, and like what I am going through, you'll deal with it when necessary. 
God Bless~





 

JaneFW:

I am going to ask him *not* to meet up with any of these women while he is up there.  I am going to make it absolutely clear that I want his time apart from me spent with his cousins or their wives, and no HS friends or former g/f's.  Does that sound like too much of a command?  Is it okay for me to say that? 

You have every right to ask him to not see ex-girlfriends while he is visiting his cousins. 

I'm not so sure about high school male friends.  That would be a bit restrictive unless you know they are a bad influence.  

((((Jane)))),

I realize I've not posted to you on this thread, but please know that you are in my prayers. 

I don't think that any of your feelings are unreasonable.  And I encourage you to talk with your husband about ALL your "feelings"......

May God Bless you!

bestofky

---

"God is more interested in changing US than in changing our circumstances. If we allow God to change us, then He'll guide us in how to change our circumstances."

If we "deserved it", it would not be "MERCY".

Thanks guys.  I did talk to him.  I asked him whether he was meeting anyone other than his cousins, and *requested* him not to meet any women face to face, because I just didn't think it was appropriate.  He told me that if he met anyone, they would be with their husbands.  We'll see.  He hasn't set up any 'for sure' meetings.  He knows that, next time, he won't be going alone!

I was very gentle about the way I approached him.  I don't want another bust up on this issue, or any other issue of course.  In the meantime, I am still watching his communications.  I hope I don't have to do it for long.  I detest 'spying'.

So, I don't know what anyone can do to "help" me here, but I just wanted to vent a little, I guess.  I'm realizing that this is just who I am married to, and that I'm going to have to live with it, regardless of whether I like it or not (I don't). 

I did a quick check on Eblaster this morning.  I just look at instant messages, and only im's with women, so I figure that leaves him privacy for all of his other interactions, which I really don't care about any more.  I found a conversation with this one woman, Tammy, who he had im'd with before, and had pm's with.  He was one of those he asked if she would meet him when he went to Abilene - but she was out of town. 

Lie #1 - he told me that he wasn't interacting with any old girlfriends.  In this im he tells her that he was always proud to take her to the movies because of how good she looked.  He told he in an im that he "tried to win her back" after they broke up, so I know that this is an old g/f, and he was already talking to her when we talked about this and he told the lie.

Lie #2 - he told me that if he did meet any of these women for lunch in Abilene, he wouldn't meet any women alone, they would bring their husbands.  In the im he says that he tried to hook up with another girl they knew, another Tammy, and he says to this Tammy that he "just wanted to have lunch with a girl called Tammy."  I know he is saying this part as a joke, but it's obvious to me from this and from the im's that he did not intend their husbands to be present as he never once mentions husbands, and neither do they.

I'm upset that he tells her that she looks "d@mn fine" in her photos, which leads to the comment about him being proud to take her to the movies.  Then he says that he is "too honest" - which is enough to make a cat laugh.  He's so honest that he's flirting with women who are married, while he is married.  Very honest.  Yes.

It was (to me) a sickening exchange.  He's still plugging at getting together some time.  I can only assume that I won't be present, because neither of them mention their spouses.

I realized reading this this morning that he is not going to change, and that it doesn't matter whether I told him to stay off FB, because he will always find another outlet for that restless, disappointed part of him that craves flirtation/excitement/thrill of the unknown (or 'not known for a long while'!)  That's who/what he is.  I have figured out over the past year or so, probably longer, that he is incredibly false in many respects, and that he wears so many faces that I'm amazed he can keep up with which one he shows to which person.  So, today he was the caring husband, taking me to the dentist (I might have had to get an extraction but didn't), but yesterday he was the free and loose 15yo (or whatever) again, who could flirt with girls, and on Sunday he will be the good Christian man.  I'm revolted at times. 

It seems to me that I need to shrug my shoulders and just keep truckin' on, while trying to steer him away from doing something *too* stupid, and just try not to think about him whispering in another woman's ear (electronically) while I sit on the sidelines.  I'm tired of being sidelined in favor of women in porn, or women from the past, but there doesn't seem to be an option. 

It's very saddening.  I had some thoughts of "two can play that game" because y'know I could do that too .. but why would I dirty my soul with flirtations?  What it comes down to is that I want him, but he doesn't want me.  So, oh well. 

JaneFW:

It seems to me that I need to shrug my shoulders and just keep truckin' on, while trying to steer him away from doing something *too* stupid, and just try not to think about him whispering in another woman's ear (electronically) while I sit on the sidelines.  I'm tired of being sidelined in favor of women in porn, or women from the past, but there doesn't seem to be an option.

I'm sorry that you are dealing what what you are dealing with on this.  I did have a thought as to a possible different approach that you could try taking though. Since it isn't(or shouldn't be) your job to keep him from being "too" stupid, maybe you should let him. Maybe something serious and the fallout that occurs afterward is what it's going to take for him to "get it". Maybe a little similar to an alcoholic "hitting bottom".

I realize that it's far easier for me to sit here and suggest something like that than it would be for you to do it, I'm just tossing something out there for your consideration.

---

Chaz345

Jane, I'm so sorry! I am praying for you.

Just a note, this doesn't really mean that he doesn't want you. Really. Hard to believe, but it's true. Stupid, but true.

I'm praying.

---

Elaine

Romans 8