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JaneFW:I know you're not accusing me, but I just want to say that I really don't punish him - nor do I want to. I don't want to watch him either. I didn't want to find any of these things out. I'm on the brink of downloading E-blaster to his Notebook because then I *will* know if there is something going on, but then what? What happens then? This is what keeps me from doing that.
Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself.
daftac:Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself.
I assume you're saying that the violation of boundaries must have consequences??
I agree you can't change him. I think what is most striking in this is that *he* is not showing a focus on the marriage and a real desire to change. True enough, we can't change someone else (we can only change the environment in which that person exists to whatever extent we can, e.g. boundaries). Real change can only come from one's desire to change. And that is what I'm not seeing.
Utilized "appropriately", a Facebook account and internet activity doesn't have to be problemtatic for a marriage. But if someone already has a history of bad decisions, and continues to lean in that direction, then complete abandonment is necessary. Someone trying to stop drinking alcohol shouldn't continue to go down to the local bar to see his friends.
I am not at all saying that his behavior means he doesn't value your marriage. I know full-well, personally, how hard it can be to change and get right *even when I know my behavior is destructive*.
But I also know that real ultimate mental and intellectual change isn't going to happen without definite behavioral change. The bible is clear that we must lead with our actions, and our heart will follow. If we are in sin and lead with our heart, we WILL fail.
I think a complete end to Facebook and any other online social or community sites is perfectly in order. You can't MAKE him do it. But you can, if you so agree and decide, tell him what you think and what his behaviors, both good and bad, mean to you. It is perfectly reasonable to say "your continued use of Facebook, and your contact with other women, means ___________ to me."
Jesus says to flee temptation. There is a reason He says that. He knows our hearts.
daftac: JaneFW:I know you're not accusing me, but I just want to say that I really don't punish him - nor do I want to. I don't want to watch him either. I didn't want to find any of these things out. I'm on the brink of downloading E-blaster to his Notebook because then I *will* know if there is something going on, but then what? What happens then? This is what keeps me from doing that. Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself.
Jane I pm'd you...probalby not helpful just wanted to relate you.
Love
Dallas
JaneFW: daftac: JaneFW:I know you're not accusing me, but I just want to say that I really don't punish him - nor do I want to. I don't want to watch him either. I didn't want to find any of these things out. I'm on the brink of downloading E-blaster to his Notebook because then I *will* know if there is something going on, but then what? What happens then? This is what keeps me from doing that. (The breaking of) Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself. But what form would protecting myself take? If I download that software, I will know every single thing he does online - in detail. If I find out he is flirting or even - worst case scenario - planning to meet one of these women when he goes out of town, then I will have to confront him, and what will the fallout from that be? The end of my marriage? I cannot imagine continuing to live with this guy and trust him if it has gone that far. I am exhausted from all of this 'flak' that has been coming my/our way for so many years: all the flirting, the lying, the sneaking around .. it becomes unbearable. Someone criticized me for saying I had put up a wall a little while back. Well, sometimes it's safer to have a wall around the heart, that's all I can say, and until you have lived this scenario for so long, you can't say how you will react. (Generic "you", not you=Daf.) I don't know if I want to know. I feel like I know enough to make my heart ache already.
daftac: JaneFW:I know you're not accusing me, but I just want to say that I really don't punish him - nor do I want to. I don't want to watch him either. I didn't want to find any of these things out. I'm on the brink of downloading E-blaster to his Notebook because then I *will* know if there is something going on, but then what? What happens then? This is what keeps me from doing that. (The breaking of) Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself.
(The breaking of) Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself.
First off Jane - I understand how this type of behavior devastates a spouse. Your heart ache is absolutely legitimate and understandable.
No one can tell you what you should choose for you and your family when it comes to setting boundaries and the appropriate consequences should your husband break them. Is divorce a consequence? I suppose, under certain extreem circumstances, it could be. Are there other options? Absolutely. You must decide for yourself which boundaries are needed for you and which consequences would be the most appropriate.
I don't think choosing "not to know" to avoid facing the possibility that you will experience more heart ache is a wise course. Of course there's two sides to that coin - obsessing about what he might be doing and trying to police him isn't healthy either (marriage is meant to be built on trust - not on a parole officer relationship). I do know that you cannot close off your heart (or put up a wall) without walling yourself in and losing some of your own precious freedom. You must find a balance between acknowledging and acting on the truth (when you are made aware of it) and being overwhelmed by suspicions and fears about what your husband may or may not be desiring, planning or doing.
Counseling wouldn't be a bad thing Jane - even if your husband doesn't want to participate. I think it would help you sort through a lot of this stuff.
Just my humble opinion...
JaneFW:On top of this, he has decided he is going to Abilene the weekend after next (on his own), ostensibly to meet up with his two cousins. I'm very uneasy about this. I know he said that originally he wanted to hook up with his cousins, that he missed them, and wanted to start being able to visit them and have them visit us. I know he misses not having male friends/family.
IMO, this is the most concerning thing you've shared. It's too timely. It just doesn't seem on the up and up considering everything else.
daftac: JaneFW:I know you're not accusing me, but I just want to say that I really don't punish him - nor do I want to. I don't want to watch him either. I didn't want to find any of these things out. I'm on the brink of downloading E-blaster to his Notebook because then I *will* know if there is something going on, but then what? What happens then? This is what keeps me from doing that.Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself.
I don't understand what you mean.
Protect herself? From whom? From what? How?
What kind of consquences are you implying Jane impose?
QUOTE JANE : Not very often. We had some time this weekend, while the kids were with the grandparents, but we ended up going to stores for hours. That's what he likes to do. Shop. I find it tiresome, but I went along with it. END QUOTE
I agree ..I mean Im that way too.I dont like to shop as just a way to "get out of the house"..I do like to go when you are going for something you need..and I will "muse around"..and you can make a fun time of it.
Like you can try on a 'hat" and go ahead and get it for fun.(if its not expensive).Or a pair of big fat sun glasses..I mean THATS how Im going to be if shopping is a "date".
Other than that I make a b-line for what I need and get the heck out of there.Its not a date.
If I go with Banana to "Lowes" you can gurantee Im walking out with a cactus I thought was pretty that we didnt plan to buy.
Shopping isnt "entertainment" lest you pick up something fun and small that tickles your fancy.IMHO.
And you can only do that on occasion.Otherwise its "go down the list" and get out of there.
I was being quiet, but now I'm compelled to speak:
Jane, when I read your posts, I hear (at least) the same urgent grip on the marriage that I had when I was dealing with the windstorm--and it grieves me to see you going through it. I really understand that tug between not wanting the crap to continue, but not wanting the marriage to end.
I'm praying right now for not only wisdom-driven, faith-driven decisions for you--but for courage and determination to stand right where the Lord would have you stand--nowhere else!--and to stay there until HE see fit to move you.
I was listening to Ravi Zacharias yesterday (one of my all-time favorites). He was talking about Baalam, and how he just kept pinging God for "an answer", when the truth was that God had long since given him one. He was pushing for another answer. Please watch out for that tendency (that I think is in all of us), and kill it if it shows up, by proclaiming faith in God's perfect wisdom, faithfulness, gentleness, sovereignty and provision. Get on your face before Him and listen for His Word, through all the Bible study and fellowship you've done (double up on all of that, by the way!). He will surely speak.
SeekingHisPeace: I don't understand what you mean. Protect herself? From whom? From what? How? What kind of consquences are you implying Jane impose?
I'm referring to the concept of personal boundaries and why they are important in our lives and marriages as detailed in the book 'Boundaries in Marriage' by Henry Cloud / John Townsend.
Here are some topical videos on the concept:
http://www.cloudtownsend.com/channels/channelTopical.php?ch=Relationships
They're really quite good.
Hot Ice: I was being quiet, but now I'm compelled to speak: Jane, when I read your posts, I hear (at least) the same urgent grip on the marriage that I had when I was dealing with the windstorm--and it grieves me to see you going through it. I really understand that tug between not wanting the crap to continue, but not wanting the marriage to end. I'm praying right now for not only wisdom-driven, faith-driven decisions for you--but for courage and determination to stand right where the Lord would have you stand--nowhere else!--and to stay there until HE see fit to move you. I was listening to Ravi Zacharias yesterday (one of my all-time favorites). He was talking about Baalam, and how he just kept pinging God for "an answer", when the truth was that God had long since given him one. He was pushing for another answer. Please watch out for that tendency (that I think is in all of us), and kill it if it shows up, by proclaiming faith in God's perfect wisdom, faithfulness, gentleness, sovereignty and provision. Get on your face before Him and listen for His Word, through all the Bible study and fellowship you've done (double up on all of that, by the way!). He will surely speak.
God had long since given him the answer?
Give specifics because Im curious.
Are you saying that God has already given her the answer and she is asking for another one?
And if not why are you advising her this?
Dallas--No. I won't engage that curiosity.
Jane, if this isn't helpful, it doesn't bother me for you to put it aside--but please know that I'm praying for you, and really want this to turn out right for you!
Hot Ice: Dallas--No. I won't engage that curiosity. Jane, if this isn't helpful, it doesn't bother me for you to put it aside--but please know that I'm praying for you, and really want this to turn out right for you!
Hmmm...that speaks a lot.Thanks anyway.
daftac: JaneFW: daftac: JaneFW:I know you're not accusing me, but I just want to say that I really don't punish him - nor do I want to. I don't want to watch him either. I didn't want to find any of these things out. I'm on the brink of downloading E-blaster to his Notebook because then I *will* know if there is something going on, but then what? What happens then? This is what keeps me from doing that. (The breaking of) Boundaries MUST have consequences Jane. Even if the thought of following through on them scares you. You can't change him... but you can protect yourself. But what form would protecting myself take? If I download that software, I will know every single thing he does online - in detail. If I find out he is flirting or even - worst case scenario - planning to meet one of these women when he goes out of town, then I will have to confront him, and what will the fallout from that be? The end of my marriage? I cannot imagine continuing to live with this guy and trust him if it has gone that far. I am exhausted from all of this 'flak' that has been coming my/our way for so many years: all the flirting, the lying, the sneaking around .. it becomes unbearable. Someone criticized me for saying I had put up a wall a little while back. Well, sometimes it's safer to have a wall around the heart, that's all I can say, and until you have lived this scenario for so long, you can't say how you will react. (Generic "you", not you=Daf.) I don't know if I want to know. I feel like I know enough to make my heart ache already. First off Jane - I understand how this type of behavior devastates a spouse. Your heart ache is absolutely legitimate and understandable. No one can tell you what you should choose for you and your family when it comes to setting boundaries and the appropriate consequences should your husband break them. Is divorce a consequence? I suppose, under certain extreem circumstances, it could be. Are there other options? Absolutely. You must decide for yourself which boundaries are needed for you and which consequences would be the most appropriate. I don't think choosing "not to know" to avoid facing the possibility that you will experience more heart ache is a wise course. Of course there's two sides to that coin - obsessing about what he might be doing and trying to police him isn't healthy either (marriage is meant to be built on trust - not on a parole officer relationship). I do know that you cannot close off your heart (or put up a wall) without walling yourself in and losing some of your own precious freedom. You must find a balance between acknowledging and acting on the truth (when you are made aware of it) and being overwhelmed by suspicions and fears about what your husband may or may not be desiring, planning or doing. Counseling wouldn't be a bad thing Jane - even if your husband doesn't want to participate. I think it would help you sort through a lot of this stuff. Just my humble opinion...
Jane, this is really great advice.
Remember this is what I had to do & am still doing. I found a Christian counselor who was willing to counsel me based on God's Word and he is really helping me to sort through my feelings, etc.
If your H will go with you that's even better yet.
He needs a strong male Christian mentor as does my H! I'll add your hubby to my prayers as I pray for my own hubby, as well as lifting you up to Him!
Love ya girl!
