FamilyLife Forums

Does anyone else feel that most pastors and regular Christians are hypocritical when it comes
to sexual sin?  Specifically, I'm talking about men's use of pornography vs. women's use of
romance novels and the like.

Go to any Christian bookstore and you will see perhaps dozens of books chastising men for their
visual sexual sin.  Yet do you find any books chastising women's enjoyment of romance novels,
their "female porn"?  After all, romance novels create unrealistic expectations of men, just
like porn creates unrealistic expectations of women.

The same goes for Sunday messages at churches across the country.  When was the last time you
heard an entire sermon about the harmful effects that romance novels can have on women finding
mates they desire?  Yet pastors are not too shy to rant about the harmful effects of pornography.

Here's an analogy that I think shows that many Christians (perhaps women especially) are hypocritical
in this area.  Would you complain if Walmart started selling hard-core porn videos and magazines?
And not just a few, but whole racks of them?  Would you shop there less, or not at all?  If so,
then what are you currently doing about the racks of romance novels they sell?
 

Actually, there is a companion book to the Every Man's Battle book which is Every Woman's Battle, and the Setting Captives Free website course on sexual addiction is for women as well as men (it is same sex mentoring so men and women are not discussing this issue together.)  There are lots of books along the same lines that are addressed to women, and many marriage books aimed at women also address the unreal expectations that can be triggered by reading romance books. 

Evidently you think that women are getting off easy .. oh well. 

When I'm in the supermarket checkout and I see magazines that show women or men scantily clothed or the fronts of which scream SEX, I turn them inwards, away from my children's eyes.  If we were looking at books and a book cover showed a scantily clad man or woman, I would similarly turn that cover away. 

However, nothing I imagine that nothing that anyone responded to this thread would be sufficient for someone who is already so vehement about "hypocrisy".

BTW, romance novels - which I personally haven't read for a long long time - are generally not intended to cause a sexual response, and I doubt that most do.  That cannot be said for pornography, the intent of which is to instantly trigger a sexual response. 

Anyway, you lost me entirely with that one sentence about women "especially" being hypocritical (perhaps).  Not all women read romance novels.  Not all women think that romance novels are okay. 

I feel that anything that can create a sensual desire that cannot be satisfied through righteous means should be avoided.

That goes for men, women, and children.

In the grocery store near my house, they do sell romance novels and "girly" magazines.  I choose not to go down that aisle.  If I see inappropriate pictures or material in the checkout line, I look the other way.  If my child sees it, I explain to him the best I can and try to turn it into a learning experience so he can be aware at an early age.  If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out... or in this case I might just look the other way instead ;)

I raised this point quite a while ago and got pretty roundly criticized for it, but I agree entirely that there are similarities in the effects of porn and of certain types of romance novels.  I say certain types because the genre of romance novels is actually quite broad and there are some that are entirely fine, thta portray a relatively realistic picture of what male/female relationships are.

In terms of the similarity of effect though, it's not at all about wether or not they create a sexual arousal.  It's about how both porn and romance novels create impossible expectations.  The sexual arousal aspect of porn is obviously a huge problem but that's more about what makes it addictive than about the negative effects is has on a marriage.

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Chaz345

I agree that some romance novels can be as destructive to a marriage as porn. 

I don't agree, however, that there is a hypocrisy in this area.  I do believe it is addressed by our Father who disciplines His children. 

I believe the HS convicts His daughters every bit as much as He does His sons.  He does this through women's seminars, books, His Word, other believers, women ministeries, bible studies, husband's, brothers', sisters', pastors, etc, etc.

God addresses our sins regardless of our gender.

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Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground...

BcauseHeLives:

I agree that some romance novels can be as destructive to a marriage as porn. 

I don't agree, however, that there is a hypocrisy in this area.  I do believe it is addressed by our Father who disciplines His children. 

I believe the HS convicts His daughters every bit as much as He does His sons.  He does this through women's seminars, books, His Word, other believers, women ministeries, bible studies, husband's, brothers', sisters', pastors, etc, etc.

God addresses our sins regardless of our gender.

Obviously God is going to treat all sin's equally. I think where the OP is seeing hypocricy though is in how the humans in the church treat the two situations. Romance novels are very much seen as not as bad as porn within the church. I don't know if you were around the time I brought this up before( I think it was like a year and a half ago) but the overwhelming response was basically "how can you even consider the two to be remotely comparable", when all I had said was that they can be similar in how they affect a marriage, specifically in terms of how they create impossible expectations.   I didn't even go as far as you did in saying as destructive and got absolutely hammered with "how can you even think that the two are even close to as bad".  I even got hit with the bit about "how dare you whine about expectations, just go out and meed them."

All that to basically say that while I see and agree with your point that God will deal with all sin equally, I also see the OP's point in that the two are viewed/treated very differently by the Church, both by leadership and by us "common folk".

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Chaz345

Romance novels are more acceptable than porn because romance novels are just that, NOVELS. It's writing. It's a book with words, that's it (and one pic on the cover). Porn is VIDEOS, SOUNDS, FACIAL EXPRESSIONS, GENITALS displayed of REAL PEOPLE (airbrushed or not). You want to compare the two, there's your comparison.

It seems to me that for you and Chaz345 to even ask this question is to find a reason to "poke" at women the same way the world "pokes" at men about their obsession with porn.

I personally don't read romance novels. They're all the same. Guy or gal is lonely or just broken up from a bad relationship, finds new person they get a long with, who understands them, meets their emotional needs, then wham, they're in love and life is lived happily ever after. It's a fairy tale all grown up. It's a princess story, the way we girls were taught while young, the way love is supposed to be. Cinderalla, Snow White, Beauty and the Beast, etc.

As Christian men and women, you have to know what you can and cannot handle. You are responsible for the way you live with your wife/husband. You are the only one in control of your expectations. If your wife/husband doesn't realize that porn and romance novels are fake, they're obviously looking to fill a void.

As far as why pastors only preach about porn and not romance novels, well most pastors are men and that's a problem that other men have so they can probably relate better.

In July I was at a small gathering run by a trans- denominational ministry. There were about 40 people present, which were demographically representative. At one point a member of the ministry team - a woman - spoke out a "word of knowledge" that there were some there who were involved in pornography, and that they should come forward for prayer and ministry.

Because porn is something that thrives in secret, I was wondering if any would be bold enough to openly respond. Two young men went forward. They were joined by two young women. The finally a small boy, at a guess about 10yrs old, took his place standing next to them.
It was not a surprise to see young men respond, but I was astonished at the young women, seeing as we are told it is a male problem. These two women were not associated with the two guys, so it can't be explained by a suggestion that they were drawn into it by their bfs.

I don't know what kind porn the girls were into, but it would not have been romance novels. It would be straight porn, because that is the usual definition of the term. That result indicated that porn is as much a problem for generation Y women as it is for men. The intense overt sexualization of youth over the last decade or so is having it's effect on both males and females.

Last, there was the small boy.
That was even more worrying than the young women. I have heard a number of testimonies from men, one only less than a fortnight ago, how that exposure to porn at between 7 & 12 yrs of age has set them up for an uncontrollable addiction. The initial exposure had not been sought, but had been accidental, but it had still affected their brains. We know from the "old school flame" syndrome, that first love carves indelible tracks in the brain. That is what was happening to the boys seeing porn, even if by chance and not by intent.
The adult men most affected by porn usually had that early exposure.

formerlyalpha,

In response to your post about the 2 women. I'm going to confess something here that I've never told anyone.

If I were the same girl I was 10 years ago, that would've been me going to that alter for prayer over a porn obsession (but I didn't know Jesus 10 years ago). I (a female) was addicted to porn. I loved it. At that time in my life I thought that's what I needed to be. I needed to know all those things those women did and how to do it. I was dating a guy who wanted all that and I wanted him, so I learned to love porn. I would watch it (and other things) even when he wasn't around. I was addicted in every since of the word. My husband didn't even know. But he did realize a few years after I gave up that addiction a change in my "behavior."

I say that to say, it's possible for women to become addicted to porn especially in this day in age when it is so open and available. Women's insecurities are displayed in front of them at every angle. So how do some women fix it? The same way they do when they see a swim suit model. Lose weight. In this case, watch the porn to become better at sex.

That's all I have to say about that.

I guess my point was that God will deal w/whatever sin that has a hold on us.  The "church" is God's people.  Do we trust that God direct His people?  That He moves them to help one another, etc?

I choose (and this is something I do actively...daily, sometimes minute by minute) to have faith.  That God is going to deal w/whatever sin taking root in my heart, my H's heart, etc. 

I used to worry about whether "the other guy" was being adequately disciplined or not.  But it's really just a waste of time.  It's a waste of energy...both of which is given to us by God.  He tells us to not be anxious of anything.  To cast our cares onto Him. 

Are we really doing that if we're always looking for sin that are equal & making sure that the sin is addressed equally?  God's Word tells us that no sin is greater or smaller than the other.  Lying & murder are the same in His eyes. 

Is there hypocrisy?  I guess there probably is when it comes to a number of sins, but the Truth is that God is not a hypocrite & He is the one that directs our paths & disciplines us...not man.

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Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground...

I thought I was finished, but I will also say this about the difference between romance novels and porn.

Porn is carnal, there's something so fleshy about it that it makes you feel dirty and sneaky and excited all at the same time. It's because you know it's wrong. You know that you're sinning against your spouse and lusting after someone else from the moment you open that magazine or turn on that dvd or website. You know what's going to happen to you once you start, but you sit there and you do it anyway. Then those images pop up into your mind later on even if you want to do what's right. It's your flesh. It has nothing to do with your expectations of your wife/husband. It has everything to do with you. You like that sinful feeling.

Romance novels are emotional. It plays on that need to feel wanted, desired, understood. It makes you wish for things that you may not have at home. To an emotionally desperate person, it makes you want your spouse to become as wonderful as the character in the book. Romance novels can have some explicit love scenes and it makes you wish your love life was as exciting, if that area in your life is lacking.

The difference is, a romance novel can only negatively affect the person and their spouse IF they are lacking in some emotional area of their life. Otherwise, it's just a secular fairy tale to read. (I'm not recommending it - get a Christian fiction novel). Porn is something people cling to whether their home life and spouse is great or not. Their wife/husband can be doing a wonderful job in all areas, but that person will still continue to knowingly sin against them. It's their own private entertainment.

mzjh20:

It seems to me that for you and Chaz345 to even ask this question is to find a reason to "poke" at women the same way the world "pokes" at men about their obsession with porn.

Thanks for the automatic negative assumption about my motives, but you are in fact completely wrong. Experience with others so quick to immediately jump to the negative assumption tells me though that it's probably pointless to explain my real purpose.

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Chaz345

mzjh20:

I thought I was finished, but I will also say this about the difference between romance novels and porn.

Porn is carnal, there's something so fleshy about it that it makes you feel dirty and sneaky and excited all at the same time. It's because you know it's wrong. You know that you're sinning against your spouse and lusting after someone else from the moment you open that magazine or turn on that dvd or website. You know what's going to happen to you once you start, but you sit there and you do it anyway. Then those images pop up into your mind later on even if you want to do what's right. It's your flesh. It has nothing to do with your expectations of your wife/husband. It has everything to do with you. You like that sinful feeling.

Romance novels are emotional. It plays on that need to feel wanted, desired, understood. It makes you wish for things that you may not have at home. To an emotionally desperate person, it makes you want your spouse to become as wonderful as the character in the book. Romance novels can have some explicit love scenes and it makes you wish your love life was as exciting, if that area in your life is lacking.

The difference is, a romance novel can only negatively affect the person and their spouse IF they are lacking in some emotional area of their life. Otherwise, it's just a secular fairy tale to read. (I'm not recommending it - get a Christian fiction novel). Porn is something people cling to whether their home life and spouse is great or not. Their wife/husband can be doing a wonderful job in all areas, but that person will still continue to knowingly sin against them. It's their own private entertainment.

I disagree entirely that romance novels can only cause a problem if there is already a lacking area. Someone who is perfectly happy can see that even more perfect guy and start to wonder why her husband can't be more like him.

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Chaz345

There is quite a bit more damage done in the porn industry than in the romance novel field.  With porn you have drugs, abuse and probably coersion, maybe human trafficking, prostituion.  I think most adults can read a romance novel and know that it is escapism reading and day to day life is not going to be constant romance.  That's not to say however that there isn't books with lot of objectionable content.  I don't even think all porn material is equal in terms of damage -- there are certain genres that IMHO are worse than others.  Not that any of it is suitable.  My ex spent a lot of money on porn, but I can't say that porn had any bearing on our divorce.  I never felt threatened or jealous or whatever it would be called by a magazine.  It was probably more of a symptom of deeper underlying problems.  I did read romance novels, I don't think they had any bearing on our divorce either.  I never thought of the characters as real people, nor compared them to Ex-H. 

Books have been written about how women have a different lead in to sexual intimacy.

Among the better-known in the christian field is Kevin Leman's "Sex Begins in the Kitchen." ( For wives).

Having recently considered the different way the male and female brain functions in love relationships, it has afforded an understanding of the way women can be turned on by things that are not in themselves overtly sexual. At least no man would regard them as sexual. e.g. one man said that when he swept the autumn leaves off the driveway, that had the effect of being like a kind of foreplay in his wife's estimate. It made her desire him in a sexual way, and he got his reward that night!.

Barb Larrimore, who with her husband co-authored "His Brain, Her Brain", said, " I realised that my need for conversation is as intense as his need for sexual intimacy." That's a pointer to the different pathway a woman takes in her quest for pleasure.

It so happened that a christian bookstore catalogue arrived in the mail today. The fiction section is pitched at women. The popular themes circle around  meeting a man, falling for said man.
One story is of an au pair girl who is "slowly falling for her boss; (presumably a widower) how can she ever hope to win his heart?"
Another is about a girl who grew up under a controlling father who forbade her to marry, but she meets a poet,and "with him comes the possibility of happiness".

A story of romance can cultivate a woman's desire for intimacy with a man, any man who fits the fantasy.
Or, if she is already married, but feeling emotionally neglected, she can find herself swooning over the hunks described in the novels.
The equivalent for a man would be visually stimulating images of fetching females.
In the final wash up, the two completely different approaches achieve the same end result for the respective genders: romantic involvement and fulfillment. Sex.